Discussing Paul Elam and MGTOW

The essential of our practice: male and female differences are only eliminated when we realize that union is the supreme goal for both.

I want to sit here and give my FULL attention to you. That is what we actually want, all of us. The problem comes from desire. I don't know whether men or women have more desire or different qualities of desire. The quality of their desire may differ due to their sexuality, but being free of desire is the key to union, i.e., the key to being free of the thought that union in prema is not the highest achievement. That all the things -- house, money, riches, fame, achievements, success, conquest -- any of those things can be a substitute for prema.

A woman might think that she can achieve those things  <i>through <i> a man. A man is more often just thinking about the sexual payoff. And this it the matrix on which the sexes play their game. Purification of the mind through bhakti and yoga is the necessary prerequisite for even understanding what union is. Otherwise, the best anyone can manage is a feeble materialistic shadow of the reality.

I want to sit face to face and see and feel the presence of the Divine Truth  <i>in <i> the other. And I want you to feel and know that in me. And sādhana does not mean anything else but doing that because being free of rajas and tamas and being able to do that for five minutes or ten minutes (for hours on end without stopping) is not sādhana, it is siddhi. It is samādhi. It is expanded into infinity. It is the highest pleasure so why call it a sadhana.

It is a `sādhana~ because the `saṁskāras~ of `rajas~ and `tamas~ still overcome us.

The advantage of Yugal Bhajan [and there are problems there too that need to be recognized] is that you help each other. Out of love. Because you need each other to achieve fullness.

Male and female manoeuvering is really a misunderstanding of purpose.

I think it would be worth it for a feminist to listen to the man's point of view. Radhe Radhe.

Strong stuff. You should listen to this , It supports your glimpse theory. The "glimpse" = chasing the dragon.





There is a lot of truth, but not necessarily Truth.

I have a response, but I would like to hear yours. Not just a put-down.

Nandini

Its propaganda, does not look at the issue accurately nor compassionately.

Do you have compassion for the male point of view? Chasing the Dragon would be a good start.

Well, he is a bit strong from time to time. But the matter is balance. Some of it resonates with my experience with you. Do you believe it?

I went through a lot of negatives in my experience with you. Perhaps that counts for yours? I mean, it's always mutual. That is why I said the ideal is when both souls would understand that in the dual any outcome is 50 50 responsibility. Gain or loss

Jagadananda

Agreed. Let's keep that as a principle.

Nandini

Finally!

Jagadananda

Male and female manoeuvering is really a misunderstanding of purpose.

Nandini

These videos, they are not compassionate because not spiritually informed. Consequently they are horseshit.

Who is that man and is he happily married? I bet not. But if so, feel sorry for both

This fear of women, it is the stuff of darkness. No wonder Western men are not quick to react to Islamic invasion

Nandini

Wow. Shockingly wow. Women has to educate the men they love: "Please don't kill me, we might have a chance it is love." You fell for that man's propaganda, so did or does Ananda Gal

No, but Islam does. And he is inadvertently opening the doors for Islam. nearly falling

Jagadananda

He says that men are dominated by women.

Nandini

listening to that is already too late, misleading, not proper guidance. Poison

yes he says that, and it is false. It is inaccurate

Jagadananda

Are men dominated by women? Do you dominate RD? Do you manipulate? Do you think Anne dominated me?

Nandini

Men are dominated by their own fear of not having access to sex.

Jagadananda

I am not saying it is one way. Do women use that to their own advantage? That is actually what he is saying.

Nandini

Both genders "use" natural traits to be what we are

Jagadananda

So is any male=female relationship automatically one of mutual exploitation?

Nandini

Yes. But the root desire is for true love. Spiritual traditions recommend renunciation . But it seems to fail more than help.

Jagadananda

This is also what he said. (Elam). His quote, "A man's mental health can be measured by how capable he is of saying no to a woman."

Nandini

Saying no to a woman? Why not say no to his own desire, that should be easier

Jagat

Well, it comes to the same thing.

Nandini

Not at all. Can't you see the difference? Blaming someone outside yourself is the stuff of fools. First lesson in self liberation

This man is an idiot. Why do you waste your time. I am not saying that the wrong kind of feminism isn't a waste of precious human time. They are both wrong.

Jagadananda

That is true. But if a woman is using the man's weakness to take advantage for her own benefit, rather than the kind of spriitual mutuality that I see as the goal, then she is also culpable. It is the ability of each individual to have the guts and intelligence to recognize dishonesty and selfishness wherever it exists. Not that women are somehow always right, and men always wrong.

Nandini

I am not saying they are

Jagadananda

Your sentence with "wrong kind of feminism" doesn't compute.

OK. Well that is the main thing then.

Jagadananda

He is saying many similar things to you. "They are afraid of losing love and approval." You are right, and I agree, and he agrees, it is a question of emotional and spiritual immaturity. Which is based in sex desire, and the desire to be loved and approved.

Nandini

Yes. But he is blaming women for the outcome. If he understood the entire process, or if he were throughly honest about it, he would see he can't blame one party for the desire of the other. It's like shoppers blaming a store for having stuff to sell

Jagadananda

I did not get that. I understood that he was saying that society has been manipulated to the advantage of women. And that women do take advantage of it. Materialistic women and materialistic men.

Nandini

That is not true. Women don't have advantages in human society. That was in fact what started what today is called feminism.

Jagadananda

Well, you might be prejudiced.

Nandini

How? Do you really think women are not exploited by men? How am I prejudiced? Explain?

Jagadananda

Do you think women also, within the parameters of male-female biology, not take advantage?

Nandini

Sure, it does happen in biology. Explain how I, myself as an individual, am prejudiced? You raised the question. So, explain?

Jagadananda

Oh, I was only saying that you are not capable of empathizing with the other side.

Nandini

why do you say I am not capable of empathizing? Just explain, please? You are not making it clear

Jagadananda

Because you demonize the guy without dealing with what he says as a whole. You just call him a woman hater and leave it at that.

 

Nandini

Why do you use the word "demonize"? I said he is an idiot. A demon can be intelligent. He is not dealing with facts. Unscientific. I dismiss him on the basis of false information

Jagadananda

In my view, men have ALWAYS served women. It takes different forms and is often hidden behind men's lack of self-awareness or spiritual self-understanding or appreciation of woman as a spiritual being and spiritual partner. In all times and places, it HAS been possible for such spiritual communion to take place, but where one or the other side of the equation is defective, this spiritual union is not achieved.

Nandini

If men have always served women, why are women seeking freedom from patriarchy?

Jagadananda

Men serve women because women have children and therefore are limited in their freedom to do the things that are necessary for provision and protection. In modern society things are different and so the rules have changed. Making it a bit more difficult.

That is a bit illusory. Women are still making demands of men. As they always have.

Women will still be different from men.

How do you think that LOVE can be increased? How does feminism serve that purpose? If it is all about power, then there is never going to be any love. The purpose of the genders will be seen as a source of spiritual bondage only and never a source of elevation spiritually.

Why have men been  <i>afraid <i> of women? Why have men escaped from women into the forest caves?

This is assumed to be the crux of patriarchy, but surely there is more to it than that.

Nandini

The only protection women need from men is protection against other men. NOT because of gestating children. Nature and of course modern world shows that females can be single mothers and protect their children just fine. I am not saying this a good thing. But it does show that the "protection" argument is not dealt with honestly

Jagadananda

Thing is that men have served women. And to keep things functioning properly, the woman was also told to serve the husband, in a fair exchange. But women think that it is unequal. Now that the baby problem is no longer there, they don't see why they should be subject to the same arrangement. Which is good.

Too many men raised by single mothers may well be part of the problem.

Nandini

It's a consequence. You still argue in a emotional way, not science there, my friend.

Jagadananda

Well, I think that women really do underestimate what they get from men. This is why homosexuality is increasing, in my opinion. Men can't be bothered with demanding women, women can't be bothered by needy men.

What science do you want? There is plenty of stuff on these subjects, but people pick and choose. But you cannot deny the history of anthropology and human evolution. Come on.

What do you want, statistics? What kind of statistics do you want?

Nandini

Who is denying history and anthropology?

What science do I want? Facts. isnt it a fact that men rape more than women do? And isn't rape by men a huge, terrible problem for human society since time immemorial?

Jagadananda

I concede the point. But is that the only issue? Are all men rapists?

Nandini

It's the central point. The elephant in the room.

Jagadananda

"Elephant in the room" means it is everywhere.

Nandini

This sense of entitlement leads to videos like that. Women are careful to not hurt the men they love, partner, son, father, etc, so we don't put the question individually. But as a group, the gender is really predatory.

Nandini

yes it is everywhere. That is why darkness, Islam will dictate executions

and all men will stand by silent and afraid. Still afraid, after all these millenniums.

Jagadananda

Protecting women from other men seems like a pretty big job.

Nandini

We have all been the opposite gender in previous births. Yes it is the worst job, I would not want it. Men are predators to females. For some reason this planet was set up like that.

Nandini

It turns out it is the woman who protects the man. Against himself. But that mode of protection does not do the complete job: A man becomes then "manipulated" and the woman corrupt. Just as the sastra says.

 

So, back to the subject of men-woman. Tthe thing is, while this mutual exploitation goes on there isn't room for mature love, for a yugala bhajan that you propose. Because the mood is rasabhasa, mother-son, Vatsalya predominates. I have been saying for years, men must mature. It seems spiritual traditions can only go so far as renunciation.

Maybe the Goswamis saw manjari bhava as that evolutionary link. I think they did. Rupa Goswami seems to have. Anyway, that is the only way I can accept this tradition. Otherwise, as I said, I can't pretend I am convinced by yet another system of denial of facts.

 

Jagadananda

Well, that was my original theory also, about manjari bhava. I seem to have become a little shaken in my clarity. That is one reason I need to work with you.

 

One of the claims of the anti-NWO (New World Order, for want of a better term, but into which I lump mostly anti-Jewish propaganda) Brother Nathanael being the last specimen I have been examining, is that Jews in their quest for world domination are doing everything to undermine the moral fibre of Western Christian civilization. They hate Christianity. (He shows a couple of videos -- Larry David pissing on a picture of JC, Sarah Silverman saying she would crucify JC again -- and so though they keep a certain morality intact within their own community, "for the Goys" they promote homosexuality, feminism, pornography, liberal ideas in every domain, in order to weaken the cultural fabric.

This is how the Jewish absolute control over the media is manifest.

 

Nandini

I am also hopeful that I can work with you.

 

Jagadananda

It will work out as long as we are equals. But equal to me means equally totally committed to the third point of the triangle (as in my diagram).

 

Nandini

Agreed about American Jewish media. But Islam is about as bad, perhaps worse. And unfortunately within Gaudiya Vaishnavism Islam still dictates behavior.

 

Nandini

I agree about the third party being the solution. It is kind of obvious.

 

Jagadananda

Why do you think GV is influenced by Islam?

 

Nandini

It is not just my "thinking". It is.

 

Jagadananda

How so? You have to go down a pretty deep hole to get to Islam -- FGM, multiple wives, burkas, etc.

 

Nandini

where gender relations are concerned, it is. Sex for procreation only never left Islam. And Islam never left Gaudiyaism, although my theory is that the eradication of this problem was PRECISELY the intention of Rupa and Sanatana. Sex for procreation only was never a part of Islam. Rape, however, was. Genital mutilation was. Confinement of women was.

These practices you list are the aberration, the obvious outcome of an aberration. There is only a thin ice layer keeping all religions from collapsing back in to that dark place. Islam is just the raw reality if male fear of female.

 

Jagadananda

Some of those things influenced Hinduism, but it seems to me that rasika bhakti is almost diametrically opposed to most Islamic ideas.

 

Nandini

Yes! Rasikbhakti is the antidote

 

Jagadananda

What do men have to be afraid of? They mostly just don't like to be nagged.

 

Nandini

As I said, there isn't much distance from your resistance to facts in this matter, for example, an educated and very intelligent western Christiam raised male, and the psychological acceptance of a practice, such as GM

 

Why do say "they" and not "I"?

 

Jagadananda

And if they are low level, sex on demand.

 

Nandini

Nagged?! Wow. We were talking about rape, no?

 

Jagadananda

So you think GV promotes rape culture?

 

Nandini

So yeah, men like to rape, and if that doesn't do it, mutilate female's natural ability to feel pleasure. And you quickly switch to the "nagging" argument.

 

Jagadananda

No I am talking about men generally. They don't like to be nagged. Other than that, they are okay. It is the nagging that drives them nuts. Of course, women might think the nagging is legitimate and that the men have no right to react, but that is not quite the same.

 

The question was, What do men have to be afraid of from women?

 

Nandini

I think Bhaktivedanta Swami did promote rape in a round about way. Actually directly by saying that women are inferior and they like to be raped.

 

Jagadananda

I think you give overmuch importance to that. But even if he did, that hardly means it can be generalized to GV universally.

 

Nandini

We were talking about rape, not nagging. Can you stay with the subject?

 

Jagadananda

I am talking about why are men afraid of women? What's to be afraid of? Rape culture is Islam, a warrior culture where rape is seen as a benefit of war. I don't see that ANYWHERE in GV.

 

Nandini

I think I and specially you don't give enough importance to that detail. This is actually the one thing, the central thing that led me to lose faith, trust in you: that you trivialize this rather essential, central issue.

 

Jagadananda

Answer my question and stop making assumptions. I think that you overstate it. And I don't see you responding. And why is it that you don't answer my question about fear?

Nandini

Because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not there

Jagadananda

I am asking YOU to answer my question. And I am not trivializing anything. Believe me, nagging is a BIG deal.

Jagadananda

I am asking you to tell me why men are afraid of women. That seems to be a big part of the premise here. I agree there is something to it. But I need you to explain how you understand it.

I don't agree that rape culture is a part of GV. And indeed I think that really with the exception of Islam, all religions are about killing the rape spirit.

Nandini

Maybe. Possibly. But if so, no tradition has succeeded yet. And perhaps because of rape culture is unconsciously sustained by a denial culture

Jagadananda

That is to underestimate the truth. If it were not the case, then no man would be able to stop himself from raping. Yet, we see that in most cases, in most societies, most men (high %) are able to go through life without raping, unless we set the bar for rape so low that any kind of sexual advance is said to equal rape. If it were not the case that religions have to some extent succeeded in controlling men's (and women's) lowest instincts.

Here is what you said, "Islam is just the raw reality of male fear of female." And I asked you several times to explain that statement.

Nandini

Jagat, I am completely convinced that Srila Prabhupada made a mistake in not seeing the potential negativity if his opinion, his speculation. And his followers are now (like you are doing right now) , make an even bigger mistake by not rectifying that error.

Jagadananda

that leads to violence

Nandini

ok. I will address that. Lets get it clear first: Are you saying that the root cause of rape, of violence, is female nagging?

Jagadananda

Of course not.

Nandini

But you did say that you equate fear with nagging?

Jagadananda

What does fear have to do with rape?

Like when Mohammad's soldiers came into Iraq and slaughtered the men and raped the women, and took the good-looking young ones for wives and killed the old and ugly ones. Where was the fear? I mean I can see an argument, but I want to hear yours.

Nandini

Fear of not having access to sex will lead a man to violence. Bhagavad Gita 2.62. Not having access to sex is not the same as fear of women.

Jagadananda

You mean fear that they will say no?

Nandini

Yes! Some genius you are, geez.

Jagadananda

Then basically you are equating "nagging" with "fear." Is that fear, really?

Nandini

Are you saying a female saying no to see is equal to nagging?

Jagadananda

Nagging to me is a complicated way of saying no, with lots of added bad feeling.

Nandini

No to sex. And isn't saying no to sex a universal right of the Jiva? By nagging I thought you meant actually nagging. But now I see you have a different definition. Just for perspective: "Nagging, in interpersonal communication, is repetitious behaviour in the form of pestering, hectoring, harassing, or otherwise continuously urging an individual to complete previously discussed requests or act on advice."

Jagadananda

Of course it is. But a man who is with a woman has some expectation of having his craving for union, on whatever level of consciousness, fulfilled. That is a major purpose of his getting married or into a relationship. The woman holds power over him because of his sex desire. When she refuses him, she is using really the one weapon she has. Even if she succumbs, if she does not give her heart to him, then he is (especially if on a lower level of consciousness, and that really IS what we are talking about) likely to become angry.

But religion is about countering that tendency. And to a great extent it is successful. But in modern society, I think we have a hyper expansion of sexual stimulation but a general reduction of capacity for spiritual maturity and love. But her weapon is VERY powerful. And EVERY woman knows it.

Nandini

And because he becomes angry to a trait that is naturally his responsibility (a male body), the female partner or partners have to pay for it in the form of being victim of violence? But no. Not every woman knows it. That is your speculation

Jagadananda

Well YOU know it.

I am not defending. What I am defending is the role of religion in attenuating this tendency. How does GV promote rape culture? Or any other religion, for that matter? How does Buddhism promote rape culture? How does Christianity promote rape culture? Islam we can leave out of it.

Nandini

I am sorry but it sounds like you speak for yourself. Which is fine, of course, but to make this universal and therefore the wYs of God, please one Mohamed is already too many

Jagadananda

And your daughters no doubt know it. I am sure you taught them.

Nandini

How do all these traditions promote rape culture? By refusing to leave women alone, without the obligation to subject to a male sexually.

Jagadananda

What are you talking about?

Nandini

You are being insulting towards me and my daughters. I will not engage if you don't check yourself. Sorry but you are being jerk in this regard. read read read

Jagadananda

You are telling me that you never discussed the power that a woman has over a man?

Nandini

Never. But you, on your side, have been speculating all these years in this regard.

Jagadananda

OK. I never discussed with my son also. Nevertheless, I think that media has made it clear. I  think frankly that it is instinctive in a woman. She knows where her power lies. And believe me, it is not small stuff.

Nandini

Radharani gave you a woman who loved unconditionally, and you lost it to a mundane concept of female psychology. Hence "we" failed.

Jagadananda

Well, if we want to understand the higher realms of love, we need to be sanguine about the realities. One of the things I am accused of is trying to bring Radha and Krishna into the realm of the mundane. So we have to know how to make distinctions.

Nandini

well doh. but your own version of "facts" are not going to make them facts. It has to do with the triangle,

Jagadananda

YOU are not answering the question honestly. Does female sexual love represent the real power a woman has over a man? She can withhold her love and that is what the man wants. The man, if he is weak, succumbs to the woman and becomes straiṇa, in the Sanskrit. This is what is always spoken of when the stri-sangi is condemned.

And are you aware of this power? And are other women? Some may be expert in wielding it, others less so, but nevertheless, it is their power.

Not only is it their power, but it is the shakti that men crave. So a woman that does not give her love to the man she has chosen in life then he becomes powerless and weak.

I was saying that the Yugal is about harmonizing the exchange of energy. If you think of it as a mechanical process that generates Prema Shakti, then you want that mechanical process to function properly. That is in the interest of both the partners.

Most religions are focused on the reproductive aspects of sex and the family life that results. Only Tantricism and Vaishnava Sahajiya have thought about the problem a little more expansively.

The Yugal is a unity. There is no advantage to the male that is not an advantage to the female. And vice versa.

Rape means thinking power is more important than love. It is tamasik. Religion is about bringing people to sattva. Unless a man is predominated by sattva, he will have tendency to rape.

The emphasis on renunciation in the Bhagavatam is to make one free from the "woman's plaything" concept of manhood, where one is controlled by a materialistic woman through slavery to sexual desire.

But this question does not arise if the couple is expert in bhajan. And for the sadhaka, renunciation or yukta vairagya is the essential practice of the sadhana.

I just want to say one thing about the me becoming free of your influence or whatever it was. What I wanted to say was that even though I take it as a conscious decision, and it is a conscious decision, even as I know it is based in unconscious elements.

The thing is, what are these unconscious elements? Radha Krishna myth lets us know that these are very deep rooted images and they transform our concept of love and sexuality. It is a fairy tale, but it is a fairy tale that has been given sacred or divine shakti. Indeed, it possesses that shakti in its own right.\

So our job, in a way, is to actualize the myth. And that can only really be done through becoming HOLY.

But not Catholic holy, Radha Krishna holy. Vasihnava holy. Rupa Sanatan holy.

Just aside here, you already said you did not like this man, but please watch this video. About borderline personality disorder. What is good, you see, is that he is talking to men, and you get the feeling that his audience here is not necessarily our kind of people, more the trailer park Americans, and he is warning them about real women that many of them know and that are a product of their subculture. Nevertheless, I can recognize some of those symptoms, I have seen them, though thank God I did not suffer most of them myself.

 Nandini

And your urgency is to be free of my influence, right? Don't worry, you can tell me the truth. We should be friends beyond all fear. Or so I hope it is possible. You see, sometimes a mother will lie to protect her children. But it shouldn't be that way, naturally. So, from experience, I know that I am more powerful as a mother than as a lover.

Jagadananda

Nevertheless BPD is something that everybody always has a bit of. That is a moral problem for us, while it is a psychological problem for others. Now, of course, Babaji has started this Vedic psychology to help people get from that pathologized mental state to somewhere where you can actually get {Vedic{

Sorry. I will go read what you wrote. I found that video gives a better understanding of the man than the other ones did.

Nandini

Babaji is behind us. Not saying I am superior. But he doesn't know from experience.

Jagadananda

Give him benefit of doubt.

Nandini

Yes: to the nature of those videos. And as for its audience, I know! I have been around this redneck culture in more than one country in my life, trust me.

We have discussed this so many times: I do give him the benefit of the doubt. But still think he is behind. Just be objective and don't worry so much about defending your choices. But they are yours, not mine. I am not talking like a "woman" in this. I am talking as an individual soul.

Jagadananda

You see Govinda. I know this is only barely a conscious choice on my part. I was just reading about faith in Bhagavatam, and Gita also says we are our faith, a human being is permeated by his faith,

Anyway I found that video to be quite good. He explains BPD nicely and also is quite descriptive of the character of the woman of whom he speaks. I never meet women like that, at least not that kind of woman, though I know walking about in the USA that they exist.

So that made me understand a bit better where he is coming from. BUT, at the same time he is reading from the Psych Manual and those characteristics appear in us too.

Nandini

I told you I know exactly his arguments and agree he is not entirely wrong

Jagadananda

OK, you don't want to watch, but in our own mild way, we have both shown symptoms of BPD. Of course, I in particular have done so, but we cannot blind ourselves to some of the other characteristics that appeared in you.

Nandini

but because he doesn't address the complete picture, it is outside my range of priority.

Jagadananda

That is not to say that we are mentally ill. Other than in the sense that every conditioned soul is mentally ill.

Nandini

Jagat, let me just say to you that when it comes to you catching up, what happens to the dynamic between us is that the mother tolerating a teenager is triggered. and I show symptoms of displeasure.

 Jagadananda

In fact, the best sadhana is one in which we cure each other through love. But the big characteristic of a big burst of love, putting on a pedestal and then losing all genuine vision of that person, etc. these are like features of love in general, but can be exaggerated.

Nandini

You are just now discovering what I saw two years ago: that we are mentally instable. Yes, I should control those, but only within the context of a sadhana.

Jagadananda

That is NOT what I am saying. I am saying that these are natural characteristics of prema. If you know and master the sadhana, all your desires will be fulfilled.

Nandini

As you know, I have been questioning the concept of sadhana. Not rejecting, but questioning, perhaps just probing

Jagadananda

The thing is, because we don't do the sadhana, or only do it incompletely, that we don't take the raw material of our attraction, our glimpse, and turn it into PREMA.

Well, probe by doing more. Actually, this IS our sadhana. At least it is one dimension of it. And then thinking about these things is also part of it. But there are stronger and more direct sadhanas, like meditation and japa and kirtan and making love. These sādhanas, done in Radha Krishna bhakti consciousness.

Nandini

I have been trying to communicate to you that I don't think it is a matter of "doing" a sadhana. Ok, fine. But in my case it has to be directed by my own feelings in the process. Otherwise I will keep saying no.

Jagadananda

Yes, well what can I say? I was talking above before I got sidetracked about the Gita 17.3 and sraddha. The importance of shraddha. That we are and of course act according to our faith. Faith is always hard to define, but belief is appropriate in most cases.

Fine I would never expect anything else. I consider convincing you of my philosophy to be my principal aim in life.

Nandini

As for a formula for everyone, I don't think we can present this as anything but the development of tantra within GAUDIYA Vaishnavism.

Jagadananda

And also to learn to explain it by talking to you and explaining it to you. Letting it manifest through your grace is the way I look at it.

Nandini

I am convinced where I can see it connected with my own faith.

Jagadananda

That is exactly the point. That is my life's job, from which all other fruits will fall. As long as it gives you pleasure to discuss these things, I will hopefully get some insight by your grace.

Nandini

But you have to admit that we are not going to become a regular couple in this world. Sādhana for you is different than from me. And you need to stop blaming me for the difference. This is what Krishna arranged, if you have faith.

Jagadananda

Well, I am thinking of you, my dear. I am thinking of the highest pleasure for YOU. I am thinking how can I serve the woman I love in a REAL way, by giving her the summum bonum of PREM. This philosphy, this sādhana IS the third point of the triangle.

I just want to say one thing about the me becoming free of your influence or whatever it was. What I wanted to say was that even though I take it as a conscious decision, and it is a conscious decision, even as I know it is based in unconscious elements.

The thing is, what are these unconscious elements? Radha Krishna myth lets us know that these are very deep-rooted images and they transform our concept of love and sexuality. It is a fairy tale, but it is a fairy tale that has been given sacred or divine shakti. Indeed, it possesses that shakti in its own right.\

So our job, in a way, is to actualize the myth. And that can only really be done through becoming HOLY. But not Roman Catholic holy, Radha Krishna holy. Vaishnava holy. Rupa Sanatan holy.

Nandini

But God knows, I am about to leave Gaudiya Vaishnavism. I might have gotten Markus Ananda's curse.

Jagadananda

Just chant Radhe Shyam Radhe Shyam. Which is what I am going to do now. Don't moan. Radhe Radhe

Nandini

I am fine. Just confiding to you. I am not moaning, I feel it is inevitable to move on. I think that might be precisely the fear that is under all your search through videos right now: that you are seeing that our grand Prema theory was just our own fantasy

but what I am still concerned with is the glimpse. It is real because it is informed by faith

Didn't you say recently that Dham means effulgence? Wouldn't that mean halo? The effulgence of a soul is what concerns that soul, her environment, what it brings to other souls the maximum amount of joy. Something like that. Faith is the halo of Srimati Radharani.





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