Iskcon Rathayatra in Montreal
On Saturday there was a tremendous amount of rain, but on Sunday afternoon I managed to get down to Jeanne Mance Park and join the devotees in their annual Festival of India. This year, I had the specific intention of distributing some of those Madhurya Kadambinis that I worked on a couple of years ago.
The first thing I did was go to Bhakti Marg Swami and give him a copy. He is always nice to me, always recalling our sankirtan days in Toronto. I asked him if he minded me distributing Madhurya Kadambinis on the Rathayatra grounds and he graciously agreed. He was also very grateful for the gift.
What I really enjoyed about the book distribution was talking to devotees about the book--about Vishwanath Chakravarti, his writings, Rupa Goswami and the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, etc. About the different stages of devotion. It was a great chance to meet with old devotees and make new friends also.
Debnath Bhoumick said that he would like to get books in Bengali, so I think I will see about ordering stuff from Radha Kund for them. I ended up selling only 5, which was OK. I did not get entangled with any negative vibes, and just left alone those devotees who weren't interested. But of course, I was expecting trouble.
Sure enough, I started talking to a young Chinese girl devotee I had never seen before. She was intelligent and had done a bhakti-shastri course, so she asked me many questions and indeed started to open up to me on a personal level, telling me that she was quite involved in doing service at the temple and felt she had little time for study. Anyway, I did as I always do: encourage a person to pursue their inner direction and have faith that Krishna would guide her.
But our conversation was interrupted by a committee of three of the more conservative members of the local Iskcon establishment who expressed disquiet that I might be corrupting an innocent member of their congregation with my dissolute philosophy. I am afraid that I did not respond with perfect calm and started to feel the adrenaline pumping--even though it would have been easy to say that Bhakti Marg had given me permission. Instead, I foolishly tried to talk to these people--even though we generally keep out of each other's way. I know how narrow they are in their views.
I got the distinct impression that they were in uniform--like police. You know they are not allowed to talk to you.
Well Vishwambhar said, "We have heard you say you are a Sahajiya. Is that true?" I knew I had to say yes, but that made me want to defend my position, which of course was a no go. Prabhupada said no Sahajiyas.
Of course, one of their complaints was that the devotees had worked so hard to organize this festival and they did not want non-devotees to take advantage of the situation. Again, I tried to answer them by saying that the Madhurya Kadambini was not in conflict with Iskcon philosophy; I basically just said that an open policy would probably be more effective in the long run, but they were in unbreakable uniform mode.
They must have been observing me and tolerating my talking to people until they saw me talking to her. At least, they made it clear that was what was irritating them. But from my conversation with her, it had become clear to me that she was already feeling temple life constraining. After my talk with the three heavyweights, which I am a little ashamed to say, was not totally conducted in a calm and joyous manner, the girl came up to me and gave me 5$ donation (which I knew was all she had on her)! She actually looked pretty embarrassed for her leaders.
I may not have written anything here today had I not received a phone call this morning from a Bengali man, a lawyer, to whom I had sold a book yesterday. He wanted to return it! It was very clear that someone had been talking to him.
I ended up talking to him for two hours while he halfheartedly regurgitated the old accusations. As it was, it turned out OK. I had to reexplain to him who Vishwanath Chakravarti is, who Rupa Goswami is, etc. My main message to him in terms of my relation to Iskcon was that of course Iskcon is doing many good things; I am only against their narrowness. But there is a lot of undoing to do when talking to such people.
Afterwards, someone said something very negative to me about Iskcon devotees, but I have mixed feelings.
There is a kind of problem, since the obvious people who are interested in what I have to say, or who are interested in a book like Madhurya Kadambini, are devotees with a little experience. But I don't like to cause trouble. Really, I just wanted to sell a few books. I have NO money. But I will have to find my own audience.
Anyway, I enjoy talking about these things. And most people do enjoy listening to me. It was very enlivening and shook me out of my doldrums a bit.
The first thing I did was go to Bhakti Marg Swami and give him a copy. He is always nice to me, always recalling our sankirtan days in Toronto. I asked him if he minded me distributing Madhurya Kadambinis on the Rathayatra grounds and he graciously agreed. He was also very grateful for the gift.
What I really enjoyed about the book distribution was talking to devotees about the book--about Vishwanath Chakravarti, his writings, Rupa Goswami and the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, etc. About the different stages of devotion. It was a great chance to meet with old devotees and make new friends also.
Debnath Bhoumick said that he would like to get books in Bengali, so I think I will see about ordering stuff from Radha Kund for them. I ended up selling only 5, which was OK. I did not get entangled with any negative vibes, and just left alone those devotees who weren't interested. But of course, I was expecting trouble.
Sure enough, I started talking to a young Chinese girl devotee I had never seen before. She was intelligent and had done a bhakti-shastri course, so she asked me many questions and indeed started to open up to me on a personal level, telling me that she was quite involved in doing service at the temple and felt she had little time for study. Anyway, I did as I always do: encourage a person to pursue their inner direction and have faith that Krishna would guide her.
But our conversation was interrupted by a committee of three of the more conservative members of the local Iskcon establishment who expressed disquiet that I might be corrupting an innocent member of their congregation with my dissolute philosophy. I am afraid that I did not respond with perfect calm and started to feel the adrenaline pumping--even though it would have been easy to say that Bhakti Marg had given me permission. Instead, I foolishly tried to talk to these people--even though we generally keep out of each other's way. I know how narrow they are in their views.
I got the distinct impression that they were in uniform--like police. You know they are not allowed to talk to you.
Well Vishwambhar said, "We have heard you say you are a Sahajiya. Is that true?" I knew I had to say yes, but that made me want to defend my position, which of course was a no go. Prabhupada said no Sahajiyas.
Of course, one of their complaints was that the devotees had worked so hard to organize this festival and they did not want non-devotees to take advantage of the situation. Again, I tried to answer them by saying that the Madhurya Kadambini was not in conflict with Iskcon philosophy; I basically just said that an open policy would probably be more effective in the long run, but they were in unbreakable uniform mode.
They must have been observing me and tolerating my talking to people until they saw me talking to her. At least, they made it clear that was what was irritating them. But from my conversation with her, it had become clear to me that she was already feeling temple life constraining. After my talk with the three heavyweights, which I am a little ashamed to say, was not totally conducted in a calm and joyous manner, the girl came up to me and gave me 5$ donation (which I knew was all she had on her)! She actually looked pretty embarrassed for her leaders.
I may not have written anything here today had I not received a phone call this morning from a Bengali man, a lawyer, to whom I had sold a book yesterday. He wanted to return it! It was very clear that someone had been talking to him.
I ended up talking to him for two hours while he halfheartedly regurgitated the old accusations. As it was, it turned out OK. I had to reexplain to him who Vishwanath Chakravarti is, who Rupa Goswami is, etc. My main message to him in terms of my relation to Iskcon was that of course Iskcon is doing many good things; I am only against their narrowness. But there is a lot of undoing to do when talking to such people.
Afterwards, someone said something very negative to me about Iskcon devotees, but I have mixed feelings.
There is a kind of problem, since the obvious people who are interested in what I have to say, or who are interested in a book like Madhurya Kadambini, are devotees with a little experience. But I don't like to cause trouble. Really, I just wanted to sell a few books. I have NO money. But I will have to find my own audience.
Anyway, I enjoy talking about these things. And most people do enjoy listening to me. It was very enlivening and shook me out of my doldrums a bit.
Comments
Anyway, that is the way it works with spirituality. It is hard to justify making it a money-making activity. When or if I ever become inspired to actually build anything, then the money will come.
2) Also you are delivering Krishna to people. So why be surprised when this kind of stuff happens?
I remember one kathayar used to tell hari-katha about Krishna was coming home from tending the cows all day. And everyone was running to see Him.
But one newly married girl, her cruel in-laws would not allow her to go and even look at Krishna walking through the town with his cows and calves and cowherd boys.
They told her, "It is very dangerous to even look at Him." said one. "A black snake may bite you." said another. Still another said, "You may go mad if you hear the flute, therefore it is best you stay inside."
So they locked the newly married girl in the house. Meanwhile the mother-in-law and sisters-in-law, and all of the myriad and sundry aunts, grandmothers, and post-menopausal women, all ran outside to look at Him.
But the newly-married girl could only peep through the lattice in the doorway.
As K slowly walk through the town, everyone become immobilized. The rivers ran backwards, the rocks melted, and so on. And K knew the heart of the young girl.
So He sent first played the flute and called one of his calves Him. Then, he twisted it by the tail and sent it in her direction.
Therefore, the calf was "going astray" on K's cue. So he had to come over and retrieve the calf. And He was just outside of her doorway, inches from where she was standing.
Krishna glance at her through the lattice in the doorway. Their eyes met. And by that one glance, He captured her heart. Now she was ruined forever.
So, you are not distributing a book, per say. Is K himself, n'cest pas? you are distributing. A very heavy archetype.
Therefore, there is bound to be that reaction. Because the nature of the archetype of Krishna Himself invokes that type of reaction from the guardians of young and innocent girls.
Perhaps ~?
Jagat, sorry you got such a poor reception. For me, it's weird how my karma is playing itself out as I get older. Sometimes it seems to come out of left field and Krsna smacks me in the head with it. Very disorienting. Rascal!
A woman acquaintance of Indian origin, who has a PhD in philosophy, has been going to the temple for years out of spontaneous attraction. She recently wrote me the following:
"Ideally I should avoid the temple. I am an educated woman I cannot afford to be lumped in with the rest of the cattle. I would not be mingling with uneducated males or females elsewhere. The whole refrence point is different. There is no meeting ground. I cannot cut my shoulder of assertibility in the name of a deity. These are excuses for bad behaviour. It seems the temple is older than India in its attitudes towards women. Also most women attracted to this organisation are uneducated and are practically housewives.
Chauvinism and illiteracy make good bedfellows. None of my relatives or sisters ever approach this organisation. They find it repugnant and an aberration.
Disenchantment in the west or east cannot be remedied by returning to illiterate chauvinism. People should be able to generate a loving atmosphere without resorting to illiteracy, chauvinism and insulting propadeutic towards women.
A revolution is needed.
There is no way one can have any control over lax behaviour and disrespect towards me at the temple since I am not controlling flowers or cooking or worshipping as pujaris or am a president.
There is inequality. There is no divinity whee there is inequality between genders or there is racism.
I like music but classical music not singing that is out of tune."
END
It is no secret that aging white Western men have some sort of fantasy fetish for Asian women. Asians are;
1. smart (highest IQs in the world)
2. industrious and hardworking (money, money, money)
3. respectful, demure, submissive (at least that is the stereotype)
Asian women are seen as the quintessential "feminine".
Yeah, ISKCON men would be all over her like white on rice, baby.
So basically it was a pack of wolves (testosterone) competing for their prey (estrogen).
Nothing new or surprising about that.
Regarding your Indian Lady PhD friend and her assertion about ISKCON members being overwhelmingly from the lower classes of American and Canadian societies, true dat!
But even in India, the larger Gaudiya Vaishnava world is comprised mainly of poorly educated Bengalis, or well-educated but socially backwards ones.
In my article on Charismatic Renewal in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, one of the things I wanted to show was that Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati was most concerned about social change, that democratizing spiritual leadership and occupations was a priority.
Vaishnavism (bhakti) has always been subject to the criticism of being open to lower and less educated classes (including stri, shudra and dvijabandhu). This is its strength as well as its weakness.
But what is important to recognize is the BHAKTI is still the supreme path. JNANA is only there to confirm bhakti.
If God is both personal and impersonal, the Personal still always stands above the impersonal. If God has both form and no-form, then Form always stand above the Formless.
It is the same argument as the fact of Existence always trumps Non-existence, Consciousness always trumps Unconsciousness and Joy always trumps suffering, even though both exist simultaneously.
Bhakti is there first, in the child before it even knows language and is there on the deathbed, when the senses and memory otherwise fail. Bhakti is accsessible to all, but that does not mean that the intellectual does not need it. Better to be an idiot and have bhakti than a dry jnani with none.
The trouble is that if only the idiots are doing bhakti, then bhakti becomes a joke. They cannot defend what they are doing. Maybe they do not feel the need, but since we are rational beings, eventually our faith becomes undermined by our inability to defend our actions. This then leads to a stupid defensiveness of the kind that was mentioned in the post.
I don't know about bhakti needing any type of renewal at any time in history, because I don't find anything backwards or antiquited (is that a word?)in any of the Goswami granthas. The Goswami granthas are straight Gaudiya siddhanta, lila, and bhajan tips, there is nothing social in their books that would confine them to any cultural mileu or era (as far as human behaviour goes).
I can be in any time era, geographical location or culture and still sit down, go within, and do my lila-smaran.
Of course, being that the majority of Gaudiya Vaishnavas are from an Indian Hindu background, and they bring with them all of their cultural baggage and Desi Drama, some "renewal" may be needed for them, but for us, there is no need to take on all that, we are tabula rasas, clean slates, with regards to Gaudiya Vaishnavism at least. We can simply read the Goswami granthas, apply them in our personal lives as much as possible, and not get caught up in Hindu social/cultural baggage, though I do enjoy a good Bollywood blockbuster myself every once in a while.
Regarding JNANA. There is jnan and then there is bhakti-tattva-jnan. I am so sick of people who are intersted in the siddhant of their religion being referred to as "jnanis". If we do not have bhakti-tattva-gyan then how in Hades will we ever know what is bhakti and how will we ever perform bhakti-sadhan? Bhakti-tattva-gyan is neccessary. If one is illiterate, then one can still learn it by hearing from somebody who knows it. There is no excuse in this day and age NOT to know bhakti-tattva-gyan other than laziness.
"Bhakti is there first, in the child before it even knows language".....
My understanding is that bhakti is given to us from the outside, from the Vaishnava who has it. Of course if you are stating this in a general way, that the POTENTIAL for bhakti is there in the child, then I can agree.
Any time era? Any culture? Thats the thing: The lila is actually a mirror of Indian culture. Which can be a tremendous turn off, if not reason for irreversible doubt...
Yeah its very telling but unfortunatelly it does not tell enough, does it? I mean, you would expect that the smartest people in the world would have the most liberated women. But what we see is the opposite. What does that tell us? Its puzziling at best. Of course the aging white males and all their counterparts around the world would like to cash in on a fact like this. But when relative interests are put aside, we are still left with a big question. Perhaps the biggest questions of all times: How can so smart be so stupid??
Well, if it turns you off, find another modality. There are so many modalities, religions, spiritual paths to choose from. Or you can create your own. The possibilities are limitless.
Is this (ohter paths, create your own) what the Gosvamis recommend [in response to the lila mirroring Indian culture]? And if yes, how so? If not, why make it light? A considerate answer here would be very helpful, its a very serious subject.
Therefore why get stuck on the Goswamis if you are in disagreement with their personal choice of object of meditation?
There are so many different spiritual paths in the world to choose from so simply chose one that suits you.
It's no big deal.
Raganuga Bhakti is not for everyone. You have to have a certain mindset and samskar for it and more than anything you have to have lobh. This often comes from past life experiences of the same. Not every jiva has that.
Just move on to something that touches your heart. You will be happier.
Raganuga Bhakti is NOT for everyone. It is specifically for people who have samskaras for it.
Those people happen to come from various countries and cultural backgrounds around the globe, but nonetheless they have to have the samskaras for it.
Raganuga Bhakti, by the way, has never taken off in a big way amongst "western devotees" precisely because many of them do not have the samskaras for it. Though some of them do. Most of them have the samskaras simply for a very general sort of Krishna Bhakti that is rooted in vaidhi. Perhaps this will build their samskaras for their next life or the life thereafter and THEN they can take to Raganuga Bhakti, or maybe not.
It is not the rule that every single jiva in the Universe must become a nitya-parikara of Radha-Krishna.
There are so many other possibilites.
I don't find that my Braj Lila Meditation is confined to when I am in India wearing a sari. I sit down on the beach here in USA at sunset in my bikini and do smaranam. Hence, my claim that I can be anywhere at anytime and perform the angas of bhakti, in that sense it is not confined to a social mileu or cultural environment.
You can do lila smaranam at a clothing optional resort do, no harm.
You say, "it is not the rule that every single jiva in the Universe must become a nitya-parikara of Radha-Krishna", and that, of course, is true. But the idea is that such a thing (to become an eternal companion of the Divine Couple) has, by Mahaprabhu's cheer whim, become a tangible possibility. Why wouldn't anyone not want to make it the rule of his/her life? If you say that for some people its going to be for another life, you are still talking about the same path. Truth is, there aren't "many paths". In the true Gaudiya conclusion, or sidhanta, 'other paths' are but dellusions. Should never be recommended to fellow jivas.
1. Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu and 2. Raga Vartma Chandrika?
Having done so you will understand that raganuga bhakti is;
A. rare
B. NOT for everyone, and
C. indeed very dependent on samskaras
I'm not saying it, Rupa Goswami and Visvanath Chakravarti are.