Lila: The Death of a Devotee Girl

It is hard to know what to say on occasions like this, or whether it is even necessary to say anything at all. I do not know anyone or anything involved in this event, except for the setting of Vrindavan. And yet, because I am deeply concerned about the flaws in human nature and society that make such evil possible, and because many of those reading this blog are equally if not more concerned, I am mentioning this here in order to express my deepest sympathies for all those affected.

May they find the strength to go on with the work of human life. After all, this is the hand of destiny reminding us all what that work is.

It is almost impossible to offer comfort without sounding callous, or do anything other than try to find someone or something to blame for tragedies like this. Those poor souls who are in charge of providing comfort, usually those who have some connection to God, are left fumbling for words. From the immediated culprits to the society and culture that created the criminal, to those who should have prevented it, to God Himself, there are so many easy targets, the act of blaming which provides not one speck of comfort.

If there is any consolation, it is that Lila died in Vrindavan, and whether anyone else in the world believes in Krishna's dhama or not, she did. She was there, and the goal of anyone who believes in Vrindavan can think of nothing more auspicious than to die there, surrounded by the sounds of Nama kirtan.

I am giving Gita classes and am confronted every day with the radical nature of a belief in life beyond the body. For an ethical philosophy, we must believe that every life is an end unto itself. In this there can be no compromise. But to find true hope and meaning, we must look beyond the body, because no amount of prevention can protect anyone: remember the Masque of the Red Death. Our spiritual lives began with the parable of Parikshit's curse, let us remember it today. Death is the one fact we all have to live with, and whether it comes sooner or later really makes it no more tragic. Death is rarely timely.

It is knowledge of the inevitability of death that spurs us to reflect seriously on life, both in its ethical and its transcendent dimensions. Let us not confuse the two; and continue on in what is the real purpose of living--preparing for a death that is truly noble. And indeed, part of that work is to make this world a place that is as close as possible to the ethical ideal as it can be.

I wish peace for all. My prayers go to all. Jai Sri Radhe Shyam.


Anonymous said…
Namaste ~

I agree with you that "s/he who is not busy being born is busy dying".

As such, I appreciate this blog so that we might integrate our experiences in spirituality so we can leave this world as fully integrated and self-actualized human beings.

One of Abraham Maslow's stages of human development is called Ego Integrity [versus Despair].

By having a safe place where people can discuss and integrate their human experiences, that helps us to avoid despair over the human condition and to fully integrate ourselves: theory versus practice, scriptures versus real life.

Thanks for this blog as a service so that we may all have the best possible death, with no regrets.

-- "Gate, gate, gate; paramgate"
[gone, gone, gone; gone far beyond]
Anonymous said…
I have a question: was there a cause for this incident? i.e. "he who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it" --Carlos Santayana.

Is there something that the parents could have done to have prevented this tragedy? Not to get on the parents' case, but to educate others to avoid this type of situation again in the future.

For example on Sampradaya Sun there is an article "Don't Send Your Kids to India?" posted 2-7-08.

Would you say that it is irresponsible to send your child to a third world country without parental supervision? For example if you look at the "Travel Advisory" from US State Department homepage for "India" it says that India is a very dangerous country for women to visit and all due care must be taken in this regard.

Secondly I am wondering about the old travel adage: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". I notice this girl in her photos is not covered up with sari and when I read about her it says she would approach strangers to tell them about SP's books. But I don't know of any Indian ladies in India that this would be considered the cultural norm.

So wouldn't Indian men tend to think that Western girls are "loose" because they are not at home under the protection of their parents? For example Aiswarya Rai until she got married lived at home with her parents.

Thirdly just wondering about the social structure there. For example in Japan you would never even invite your friends to your house: everyone meets in public setting like restaurant or cafe.

Anyway it is really a very horrible brutal crime, and although there are criminals in every culture, still: aren't there some things that people can do to protect themselves? Again not to get on anyone's case, but perhaps in memory of this girl we can draw up a checklist of safe behaviors.

In the mode of it is an offense to be inattentive in ordinary dealings according to Srila Rupa Goswamipada. Therefore we educate others how to be attentive in ordinary dealings is helping their bhakti-lata-bija, so people don't have horrible vrittis of getting murdered in holy dhamas.
Anonymous said…
From: Time May 10, 2004
Cover Story: "Secrets of the Teen Brain". Summary: Dr Jay Giedd, chief of brain imaging in the child psych branch at the Natl Institutes of Mental Health has spent past 13 years MRI'ing 1,800 kids and teens.

Results? Prior to this study, most scientists believed the brain was largely a finished product by age 12 because it is full-grown in size by then. But this study shows what happens on the INSIDE of the brain.

Teen brain is not mature until age 26. "...The last area of the brain to mature is the part capable of deciding, 'I'll finish my homework, take out the grabage, then I'll PM my friends'..."

Society lets kids drive at 16, vote and serve in Army at 18, drink alcohol at 21. However the brain is the most mature at the age you can drive a car.

"...'Avis must have some pretty sophisticated neuroscientists', he jokes..."

I feel that the Radha and Krsna stories, katha, are useful as part of world literature and the genre of literary-, biblio-, dance, music, play-acting, and story-telling therapies. However what seems to be problematic is telling people that "Krsna will protect you" and overly relying on this.

God gave us brains, so why don't we use them? If people were encouraged to become educated, then they might read something besides Prabhupada's books. If they read something besides Prabhupada's books, they might learn that the human brain is not capable of making good decisions until age 26.

So then maybe they would not allow their 17 year old kid to run wild in India. In US the parents would go to jail if kid was age 17 and not in school. The child would be considered a truant. Then the parent would be incarcerated for allowing it.

So while of course this is horrible situation what has happened, why do the parents say that the cause of this tragedy was "the corrupt Indian government"?

Why do you let your 17 year old kid run wild in India without your supervision? Upper middle class Indians don't do that, so why do you? People in Western countries don't do that, so why do you?

In the US if your kid refuses to go to school, then all you do is go to Family Court and the judge orders the kid to complete high school in Juvenile Home [jail for minors].

So this is where I see a problem: people think that as long as they chant "Hare Krsna" then anything goes. That their kid is blessed and everything will turn out great.
And if things went bad in the past, it was the terrible Gurukula system and the Zonal Acharyas.

But here is an example of parents' negligent behavior and parents' own poor judgement that leads to this kind of an ending. Because the parent by law is the person who is responsible for a minor.

It just seems like a bad cocktail sometimes the combination of "Hare Krsna" with lack of savvy about the real world. And too much spin about how great the holy dhama is.

For example, on one website for years they have been sending their glorified "pimps" around the world to get people to come on parikrama to India. But once they get to India, what happens?

Well for one thing, some of the Indian brahmacaris jerked off on the Western girls right in front of the Deities. They just whipped out their thing and started yanking away.

And a leader in that sangha was behaving inappropriately with young Western girls. But the Indian in charge of the whole thing said that "Awww he has been with me since age 13" so don't tell anyone.

And also don't tell anyone that during their Navadwipa parikrama their pandal tent fell down and killed an old Indian lady. They sent out the word, "Don't tell" on their online newsletter: The Whatever Courier. They put it in writing even.

So I mean how many cover-ups is it going to take? How much spin? How many people keep on getting killed over there before somebody is honest?

What is this, is appreciating Krsna like being in the Vietnam War or something? i.e. the government has "learned its lesson", so we won't show bodybags on TV anymore? Is that what devotion to Krsna is all about? A whole bunch of spin?

If you google "devotee killed in Vrndavana" you will see that this same thing happened ten years ago. On VNN in 1998 a girl was killed on her way to Vrndavana. She never made it past Delhi. The article says that thousands of Westerners are missing in India due to being killed there.

So if the parents know it is like the Wild West, then why do you allow your daughter to live there?
Why do you think that just because you believe in Krsna that everything will be okay? Oh sorry I forgot, because your leader said, "Your life will be sublime".

You have to do your share also. That's what upper middle class Indians do. They want their kids to get the best possible education and get the hell out of India. So isn't that a hint, that the smart people want to leave their own country?

And it's not like they are so fallen and in maya, because they build some really outstanding temples in the West that don't have all of the legal problems that ISKCON has. So they reclaim their heritage, is not like being educated makes you a demon or something.

And one last thing: most Indians do not believe in Radha and Krsna worship. Now why is that? Because Krsna represents flouting the established societal conventions.

So you know: you can't go to a third world country and behave in a way that goes against the grain of the indigenous peoples and not expect to have trouble. Basically lecherous guys think that girls who are into Krsna worship and flaunt it are "super beyond easy". People should be aware of this and not be so naive about it.

They already think that every Western woman is a whore anyway and "just asking for it" [as any honest guidebook will tell you]. Then if you flaunt that you are "into Krsna" in their face, all it takes is some deranged individual thinks he is Krsna and you are his Radha.

For example, Krsna did not sit down with the gopis and do what responsible people do nowadays: talk about who it will hurt if we have sex and you are married, or what will happen if we have sex without protection, and why don't we get to know each other first?

No example is given of the gopis analyzing to see what was missing in their lives, why they would feel the need to sneak out of their house in the middle of the night in the first place. Perhaps they were just bored, and the invention of DVDs and the DVD player would have sufficed.

No example is provided of Krsna analyzing why do I feel the need to prove my masculinity by being a playboy? Or why can't we both have a conversation first about our goals in life, birth control, and sexually transmitted diseases?

Krsna could have read a book like "The Peter Pan Syndrome" and the gopis could have read a book like "Why Do I Think I Am Nothing Without A Man?" also.

These are all solutions that responsible people would implement if they had a crush on somebody and Krsna and gopis did not show by example how to do this.

That is why although the stories do have their place, I think it is very dangerous to just rely on reading these stories as all you have going for you in your life.

The Sri Isopanishad says that we must learn the material science and the spiritual science side-by-side. I feel this tragedy is an example of what happens when we overly focus on the spiritual science do not balance it out with learning about "the facts of life" in "the real world" aka material science.

I am mentioning so maybe in future some young people and/or parents and guardians wake up to avoid this type of tragedy ever again.
Because it really is super sad and I would feel sad if this girl's life ended so gruesomely in vain.

Aum Tat Sat
Anonymous said…
Lila's death was tragic and hopefully a wake up call to pilgrims on how dangerous a place India really can be, especially for women.

The Braj area is especially socially backwards, still living in a medieval times mindset. One cannot relax and just "chill" there, especially not a woman.

One Indian sadhu advises westerns NOT to make friends with the locals, but to keep a respectful distance. Why? The cultues are just too different and there is bound to be some misunderstandings and disturbance for bhajan.

Really, unless one wants to dedicate their life to serious bhajan, why would one take up residence there?

I feel that making comfortable and luxurious places of living that almost rival the West, such as the MVT, invites people with an "enjoying" attitude to come and stay for long periods. The only real enjoyment in Braj is Hari Katha from the mouths of rasiks, so if one is not there for rasik vaishnava sanga, why go? To hang out with locals? To eat pizza in air conditioned restaurants? To re-unite with your gurukuli alumni and hopefully "hook up" for some third world romance?

Now is not the time to hold Lila's parents responsible, they are still grieving the loss of their daughter. But after some time it is an issue that they will be confronted with.

The local Indian youth are not allowed to have "friends" of opposite gender. Therefore, the local boys know where to go to make "friendship" with girls - ISKCON. They can hang out in the MVT restaurant and lo and behold! A whole smorgasboard of bright and smiling young ladies awaits them, as opposed to the frowns and harsh glares from their own kind. They jump at the oppurtunity like white on rice.

Unfortunately, due to the repressive attitudes of Indian culture, women who go there would be best to act as "victorian" as possible when dealing with local Indian men (whom they should not be dealing with to beging with). In fact, I advise women and girls to act downright MEAN to the local men, otherwise, if you are normal and nice like you are in your own country, they take that as an invitation to get to know you more. Their motives are not pure. In their culture a hefty dowry is expected of a bride and after she pays it, she then becomes a slave to her in-laws. That's right - a maid pays her employers in order to work for THEM. Go figure.

So these young local men in Braj are just hoping to hook up with some wealthy (and they think we are all wealthy) foreign girl so that their and their ma, baba, bhai, bhein, chacha, chachi, etc are financially set for life!

Arey baba, you could not pay me to marry an Indian man for all the money in the world!

They are pampered by their mothers from the time they are born til the time they die, and they expect all the women in their lives to provide "ma ka dudh" for them as well! Little maharajas, they are.

I have seen so many white girls from the west take up with Indian guys (and what is this fetish for Indian guys? for the life of me I don't see the appeal, especially gaon wallas (villagers), and almost every case ends in trauma, drama, and divorce. And the few that do last, well, the woman is not happy because she is expected to take on the role of the guy's mom and wait on him hand and foot. Yuck!

India is a beautiful and exciting country, so I understand the appeal in it for western youths who want to bum around for a few years on the cheap. But unsupervised it is just way too dangerous, especially for a teenage girl! Sorry, but two brothers in their 20s are not guardian material. The whole set up was a recipe for disaster.

To supplant a western Disney World type atmosphere in the middle of bhajan bhumi Sri Vrindavan is itself a recipe for disaster. I'm in favor of keeping the dham moderately austere so that only those really desiring a life of bhajan are willing to live there.

Others can come for short pilgrimages, get "fried out" and return to the comfy west, where pizzas, decaf cappucinos, etc are available 24/7. There is no need to go to Braj to get your party on when the rave scene is in Goa anyway.

Braj is for sitting at the feet of rasiks - bas.

There are conflicting reports on what really happened with Lila. One report says the sicko raped her the night before her death, returned the next day to "apologize", was ALLOWED into the house by Lila's brother, entered Lila's room with her permission to "talk" and then proceeded to kill her.

If this is true;

Question: Why let your sister's rapist into the house?!?! Why did Lila agree to meet with her rapist? It does not make any sense.

If he had indeed raped and killed her the same night, why was he allowed in the house to begin with? The articles all say she knew him for several years.


What is there to gain? The locals are there for two things; to rent rooms from and to purchase cloth and rice/dahl from. WE on the otherhand are supposed to be there exclusively for VAISHNAVA SANGA, not local sanga.

The root cause is the establishment of a wealthy western Disney Land Neo Hippie suburb smack in the middle of what is supposed to be a Holy Tirtha created for the purpose of serious bhajan.

Someone needs to be guiding these people, otherwise I see more such tragic incidences happening in the future.
Jagadananda Das said…
Very well said. I don't know the scene well enough here in Rishikesh, but my general impression is that most of the foreigners who come do not have the same kind of commitment to Indian culture that is part of Iskcon propaganda. An ashram like this one is fully insulated. Still, you see a few of those young hippie types wandering around. But I don't see many permanent or long term settlers other than the occasional white sannyasi.

I remember, though, my first impressions of Mayapur in 1975. One of the first things Yogananda, who was there then, said to me, with disgust in his voice, that the last thing he would want to be was a Bengali villager. He was refering to the construction workers in the ashram, most of whom were poor Muslims. Bhavananda and others also habitually treated them as third world scum. The thing is that most of them adopted the appropriate grovelling and sycophantic attitude towards their "masters."

My personal opinion is that either you do bhajan or you do service.
Anonymous said…
Thank you "intercultural lovin'" that was a very good explanation.

And thank you Jagat for this blog.
You have some very interesting readers and life experiences. I appreciate how you run the blog like a college classrooom. It reminds me of being in college the candor and diversity of opinions.

Well better than college actually because no cramming for exams and we don't have to suck up to you to get a good grade just to maintain our GPA. It's more enjoyable.

Well hopefully Lila had a positive internal experience like Hans Christian Andersen's "Little Match Girl" did when she left her body

i.e. to the external world it looked like a poor waif starved to death in the snow. But internally she saw all of these beautiful visions, like an acid trip, her guardian devas helping her.

Thanks again, this is a really great blog! I am learning alot!
Anonymous said…
Namaste ~

Well it's a very interesting conundrum. India sounds so horrifying and yet in the photos sometimes looks so beautiful.

I guess this is an example of we have to strive diligently to find satchidananda inside of ourselves.

Or as you would say in the gaudiya tradition you want to find your internal Vrndavana, or whatever.

I guess that is the lesson I am coming away with from this: that this world is a very dangerous place and full of suffering. No matter where we are or live.

So try to tap into whatever your spiritual tradition is inside of yourself and have your own personal integrity.

That is the lesson I am coming away with from all of this. And do whatever your spiritual practices you are comfortable with so they become an automatic response.

Because we never know how it may all end.

And most of all, I guess I will have to wait until they have a five star hotel and a Disneyland people mover for the parikrama path before I can visit the holy dhama!

And wait until the Ganges is cleaned up enough so there is a water theme park for the kids and a nice private jacuzzi filled with Evian water and Perrier at all of the bathing ghats.

But you know, I just read a description of Paris in the 1700s that sounded exactly like India today! The streets were only five to eight meters wide and the streets were filled with filth, refuse, urine, stool, muck.

So I guess in about 400 years I will meet all of you on the Champs Elysee of Vrndavana! Going from boutique to boutique to sidewalk cafe! We can lunch at the vegan La Tour d Argent Vrndavana then check out the IM Pei pyramid at the Vrndavana Louvre!

And have front row seats for the Spring Gaur Purnima and Fall Kartik Collection of all the Vrndavana haute couture shows like Chanel, Dior, Dolce and Gabbana, etc...

But aah shucks, you will all be in the spiritual world by then...Oh well...
Anonymous said…
I felt it inappropriate to comment on Lila's tragic death, to use it as an example of things that happen and to proof a point so close after it actually happened.

But the issue is too important to delay the discussion. India, especially the North, is still a 3rd world country. For most people there is no way to escape poverty. The remnants of a backward caste-system, disrespect for women and religious hypocrisy add injury to injury.

The only way out for an indian pauper (no disrespect meant) is A) to marry a western women, eastern european is the trend now, B) to become an internationally recognized guru, avatar, Baba or God or if all else fails C) to become a suicide bomber.
So it is not paranoia to be aware that everyone who shows some interest in indian spirituality is a potential target for these people. And it is also not paranoia to know that the majority of the people you meet roaming around asrams are people with a double agenda of some sort.
Wearing bindhis, necklaces, dhotis and saris as a westerner in India is like telling them.... Hey, I am naive, unstable, I have issues and am in a serious identity crises, so I believe anything you say and do..... your miracles, your love, your sincere attention !!!!
It is like running around naked with an American flag around your head through the streets of Bagdad.

Not only are some of these cheaters cheating you to get a better life for themselves (we can't blame them), but many cherish a hidden (through false humility) envy towards westerners resulting in a dangerously suppressed hate, like we now witness in the muslim world.
This poisonous mix of hate, admiration, envy and attraction in the guise of a guru, friend or lover is not something to be naive about.

It is an unfortunate reality.
To the anonymous poster who quoted Carlos Santayana, I like your style. I assume you were also the one who spoke about God having Aspergers syndrome on a previous post.

Please get a blog of your own and write about issues in religion, I would love to read it. I find your writing simultaneously funny and ironic, a good combination. :-)

Or at the very least, please choose a nickname so I can follow your entries.

I have also left comments on some previous postings. As for this one, this is indeed a sad tragedy. I hope Lila's soul is at peace.
Anonymous said…
Thank you Anuradha, that really helps me to understand what was happening also.

I agree with you, I didn't want to say anything but I was practically having nightmares 24/7 just thinking about what happened. Not consciously thinking about it, but it's a horrible image and story that would not leave my mind.

I appreciate your comments about the mixture of hate and disgust.

Without naming any names, it seems to me that certain prominent GV gurus that I have met seem/ed to be very sadistic towards their chelas in what they would say publicly: what I have heard with my own ears, their body language, and what gets printed/ recorded in their books, lectures, tapes] and by what they would ask their students to do [the never-ending demands for money and "service"].

Having been the victim of bullying and harassment, it would "feel" to me like the guru was bullying and harassing his or her disciples. But most of the disciples did not pick up on it.

In fact one of the venues where one guru speaks, they even call it the "XXXXXX Festival" [a synonym for bullying]. But it is a coincidence of it being the place name of where it takes place. [Or a stern warning from the universe to "All ye who would enter here", more likely]

It seemed to me to be a sadistic "bullying" that was going on with no respect for other people's boundaries. It did not meet the criteria of the simple basic standard of what most post-modern people would call being polite, what to speak of "pure love" or "unconditional love".

So I see that hate-disgust-envy-admiration [admiration for the Westerners money mostly] not only in the rank and file but it appears to be the most transparent to me in the high profile gurus.

So if people accept this bullying and harassment as "love" from gurus, then it makes sense they would perceive it as "love" from

And only if you go into therapy or read widely and unravel your past and see, "Hmm well this is how my parents related to each other, so no wonder I thought this was "love", because the template of my father doing domestic violence to my mother had the same contempt-hate-envy "feel" as the guru berating his/her chelas.

I really appreciate your observations, it is helping me to examine my own life and understand and debrief the past.

In Tibetan Buddhism if thinking about another person helps you to grow and learn, then the person who inspired these thoughts and discussion shares in the merit.
[It is called Tonglen...when thinking about another helps to open your heart]. So in Buddhism this would be considered a way of honoring the deceased, to debrief and discuss a crime against women.
Anonymous said…
"I remember, though, my first impressions of Mayapur in 1975. One of the first things Yogananda, who was there then, said to me, with disgust in his voice, that the last thing he would want to be was a Bengali villager. He was refering to the construction workers in the ashram, most of whom were poor Muslims. Bhavananda and others also habitually treated them as third world scum. The thing is that most of them adopted the appropriate grovelling and sycophantic attitude towards their "masters." "....

Jagat, I'm not proposing that we should look down on the Braj locals as "third world scum". The best advice is to keep a respectful distance from them, unless they are sajatiya, snigdha, svato vare rasik vaishnava sanga.

Even Indian vaishnavas who are intent on bhajan do not mix closely with the locals, and even your average Delhi walla cannot relate to the typical Uttar Pradesh village mentality and attitudes towards women.

By mixing closely there is more chance to commit ninda and aparadha because of the vast cultural differences and the misunderstandings that are bound to rise because of them. This does nothing but upset the mind and heart.

However, an "angrez enclave" or "white ghetto" is not the answer either.

The best solution is "tisthan vraje tad-anuragi-jananugami", to reside in Braj under the anugatya of anuragi jana. This might mean residing in the Guru's ashram or living on one's own renting a room somewhere, perhaps in the house of a local family, while spending one's time in sadhu sanga and bhajan.

If one takes up residence in the house of a local family one must be careful to balance one's dealings with them so that they are respectful and sweet but not too close for comfort (not an easy task.)

It took me years to figure out the right balance in dealing with the locals, the samskars are so different from how I grew up.

In the west you can be super friendly with someone, even very close and your private space and personal time will be respected. Not so in India. You actually have to draw strong boundaries from the get-go in order to maintain some semblance of private/personal life, and the problem when you do so is that you are considered "distant and cold". However, if you do not do this, then you might as well just resign yourself to being a member of the family and having no rights as a paying tenant!

The complications are many.

Still, it is preferrable to living in an opulent, westernized resort type atmosphere.

There are benefits to living as Indian as possible while in India, such as picking up on the local dialect of Hindi (still some form of Braja-bhasha), being exposed to some customs unique to the Braj area that are quickly dying out, and other bhakti-anukula samskaras that you will never be exposed to if you are holed up in a building or community full of westerners.

But when it comes to making "friends" with local guys, that is a big no no.

Wanna date while in India?

My suggestion is to go to South Delhi and find some convent-educated-world-travelled-modern-mindset-type-of-guy, do NOT tell him your real name or place of residence, and meet him every other weekend at Barrista or Cafe Coffee Day in Basant Bihar or New Friend's Colony for the amazing Frappachinos they serve there.
Anonymous said…
Here are some more guidelines for our checklist/ rubric, now that more clear reports are coming out as to exactly what happened:

1) When a madman comes to your door, do not let him in. Unless he is Lord Chaitanya. But make him show proper ID first.

2) If a madman comes to your door and his breath is stinking of alcohol, do not let him in.
Even if is stinking of lemonade, ditto. Even if stinking of mango lassi mahaprasdam, ditto. Unless the madman is Lord Chaitanya, then he must show the proper ID first.

3) If a madman comes to your door with a gun, please be careful and do not imitate Mae West and say, "Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

If it is a gun do not let him in. And if he is happy to see you do not let him in either.

4) Learn how to look through that little thingie on your door called a peep hole to see if it is a madman before you open the door.

5) Go and watch an episode of Seinfeld and see how Kramer just barges into Jerry's house all of the time. You don't want that to happen with a madman. So go and get like about half a dozen locks and deadbolts for your door if a madman lives in your neighborhood.

6) Try to live in a neighborhood less attractive to madmen. Or a better neighborhood like a gated community, or an apartment with a security entrance.

7) When someone rapes your sister, please don't let them into the house to apologize when they show up drunk with a gun.

Let them apologize in a court of law with their court-appointed attorney there, the judge, your attorney, your expert witness, the jury, and the court's security guards.

8) If the madman insists on saying he is sorry to your sister, try to deflect him by saying,

"Huh? Didn't you see Love Story? Love means never having to say you're sorry! You don't believe me? Go rent the video. Yes the video place is still open."

But just tell the madman that through the peephole by telepathic communication while you are dialing 911 on speed dial.

9) If the Vice President of the United States can accidentally shoot his hunting buddy in the face, then surely a madcap madman can accidentally shoot your sister also: even if he is there to offer his most heartful, spontaneous, madcap madman apology.

So be careful! A gun is not a toy!

Brought to you by the Mathura- Vrndavana Committee for Madcap Madman Awareness.

But seriously, I don't understand why the 27 year old brother let the guy take his sister into a room and "apologize", while the brother waited outside the room where the apology from a drunken madman with a gun was taking place.

"I think the brother should have..." Anyone?
Anonymous said…
Well, over on Adwaitaji's blog one Krishna Akincana das posted that in India even if you are a serious Vaisnavi wearing white, with shaved head, and totally covered up, that men will come up to you while you are having darshan of the Deities and proposition you.

So is apparently not due to being covered up or not what makes men in India violate boundaries with women then.

So that makes me wonder...I don't know: do you suppose that whoever created the adage "women are nine times more lusty than men" was wrong?

Like when I see ladies walk past a construction site, it is usually the men who are yelling, "Baby baby take it all off!" and not the female construction workers yelling similar stuff at the men.

And when I go to the drug store and wait for my prescription to be filled, looking for Gopi Quarterly in the magazine rack, I notice there are alot more porn magazines for men than there are for women.

And when I get spam, it is always about "Does your penis need to be bigger?" and not about "Does your vagina need to be more saffron, peppermint, or floral scented?"

So, I was just wondering if it is true that women are nine times lustier than men or not? What do you think?

Wouldn't there be alot more women in prison for rape then if it was true?

Oh wait a minute. Now I remember that in the BG class at my local Hare Krishna Temple, the speakers [all men] said that women being "nine times more lusty" means they like more jewelry, saris, gold and wealth more than men: material things.

Oh okay, I get it. So that is why in ISKCON, during the Zonal Acharya years anyway, it was mostly the women who were accepting dakshina, having big gold and velvet Vyasasanas made for themselves so they could be the center of attention, wearing Rolex, having Swiss bank accounts, eating meals off of gold plates, and using gold-plated bathroom fixtures, with goondas to enforce it all.

Those kooky brahmacarinis, what will they think of next?!!!

Oh wait a minute: oops I think it was the men doing that. Oh gosh, now I am so confused...Can someone help me out here...?
Anonymous said…
Allow me to address the problem of sannyasinis being hot on in the holy dhama.

I propose a three-pronged solution:
1) stop doing so many penances and austerities
2) start wearing NASA spacesuits
3) world summit meeting with Jodie Foster and all SuperHero/ines

1) STOP DOING SO MANY PENANCES AND AUSTERITIES. I think it is very clear who to blame here. When we do not lose our sexual fluids, we become irresistable to others. That is how people like the Dalai Lama and Jesus become popular and attractive to both sexes.

Therefore for your own protection, you need to start cutting back on your austerities and penances. Otherwise you become too attractive to the opposite sex, the same sex, cats, dogs, hogs, camels, and asses, and so on.

2)NASA SPACESUITS. Next, a generous donor has agreed to supply a NASA spacesuit for any sannyasini who requests one.

Designed to withstand temperatures of 5000 degrees on re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere and -1000 below zero during the night on the moon, they are perfect climate controlled clothing for the Vraja climate.

An additional plus is you cannot hear anything obnoxious that people might be saying to you, because the space helmet filters out all of the irritating sounds and smells of the holy dhama.

They are made of bullet proof Kevlar so you will be safe from guns and knives, and in case of automobile accident on the famous Indian roads, an airbag instantly deploys all around you for 360 degrees of comfort cushioning.

Order yours now, they are going fast!

Hollywood actress Jodie Foster knows what it is like to have a stalker fall in love with you, and want to kill someone for you, say like the President of the United States, just to impress you.

Therefore, to help our adorable sannyasinis, Jodie Foster will be holding a summit meeting with all of the crime-fighting agencies of the world who only use their superpowers for good, like Power Rangers, Ninja Turtles, Bionicles, Superman, Spider Man, and so on.

In a unique mentoring effort, each SuperHero/ine will adopt a third world country of desperate crazies who are eager to please Western women, especially the elderly.

Then the SuperHeroes will tell the crazies exactly who to assasinate in order to impress girls like Radhe dasi from Latvia, Sakhi dasi from Belarus, Kamala dasi from Croatia, and various sannyasinis. Each will have her own MySpace account to attract the crazies.

Because the SuperHeros are totally wise, they will pick only very good people for the crazies to off like Colombian cartel drug lords, Sudanese warlords, and so on.

The crazies will also be rehabilitated so they will simply be satisfied having phone contact with the girl they are doing the killing to impress.

The phone lines will be outsourced of course not by the actual girls, but by people who really need the work. Thus "Radhe dasi" of Latvis might really be PadmaLaksmi devi dasi in a calling center in Bangalore.

Thus gradually the world will be rid of evil doers due to carefully harnessing the power of lovesick madmen, and our sannyasinis will be free to have Deity darshan in peace. If they would just cut back on the austerities and penances a bit also.

For more information visit our website www.sannyasinissavingthe
Anonymous said…
Lots of good comments here...

I want to say that the phenomena that is witnessed in India with the men being complete perverts (again not all) but a good majority, boils down to a couple of things things:


Men are taught to fear sex, fear women, least they loose their spirituality...many sadhus will not even sit in a spot where a women has sat, for fear of becoming contaminated and sexually agitated.

This fear is taught by the Religions that promote and exalt celibacy as supreme and it has been hammered into Hindu society for thousands of years by priests and so-called sadhus and saints who were themselves sexist and fearful of their own sexuality.

The parents also have hammered this fear into their own children, who promote not getting married on your own, it must be arranged otherwise you will be driven by your own desire and attraction and that will lead to hell and sex.

The whole Indian society is basically fearful of Sex and as a result they condemn the women.

But what does this fear do in the long run...? It creates repression which in turn creates fascination, The more the repression the more the fascination until it becomes unhealthy fascination which becomes perversion which in turn results in men groping women at religious event or running out from an ally to feel some tit so they can run home to beat off to..

It's really sick..and the main cause goes back to the celibates promoting fear of sex and women that they have learned from the religions and priests..

more later..

Anonymous said…
Yes Jijaji, I agree. I had the hardest time not thinking about sex while attempting to be an uptight brahmachari. I was actually completely fascinated with the forbidden, frustrated even. It were unhappy years.
The continuous guilt trip you submit yourself to is almost SM-ish.

Moderation is much easier if sex isn't polarized as something evil and dirty.
Anonymous said…
Well already I have learned many new things from Her Grace Lilaji's departure.

And in Buddhism if that happens, she shares in the merit of this teaching happening. So already many good things happening from it.

Perhaps can think of it how in the sixties Vietnamese Buddhists monks self-immolated in order to bring attention to the war in Vietnam.

Lilaji's "self-immolation" has brought attention to some new concepts:

1) EVE TEASING . Just google that term. And check out the BLANK NOISE website. This is one new area in which light is being shed upon for me, due to this unfortunate incident.

2) THE HISTORY OF CHILD ABUSE by Lloyd de Mause, psychohistorian.

Basically there are six stages of parenting. If a society does not evolve through the six stages, the society remains "frozen" at one of the stages.

STAGE ONE - infanticidal: preliterate, incest, child rape. Greek and Rome, India and China

STAGE TWO - abandoning: wetnurses, erotic beatings

STAGE THREE - ambivalent: sex molestation of kids no longer allowed, humanistic, religious, and political reforms

STAGE FOUR - intrusive: scary stories for children, to get them to behave

STAGE FIVE - socialising: peer pressure to get kids to behave

STAGE SIX - helping: true mentoring and assistance

Is similar to the modes of material nature: from tamas guna to rajas guna. On the lower levels, the child is seen as a poison container; on the higher end the parent takes up the poison container function.

i.e. at the lower levels the adult uses the kid to relieve his or her stress; on the higher level the adult controls him/herself and sacrifices so the kid can succeed.

Society is supposed to keep on evolving and getting better. If the parent is given even the most minimal supports by a society, history can move in new, innovative directions.

Conversely, if children are treated badly, they grow up to be parents who cannot rework their traumas, and history gets frozen.

On the micro level, this results in borderline personality disorder in the individual.

It is only when changes in childhood occur that socieites begin to progress and move in more adaptive directions.

On the micro level, individuated and loving people are more adaptive, because they are less under the pressure of infantile and childhood traumas, thus more rational in reaching their goals.

These are examples of two new things I have learned in the aftermath of Lila's passing. Her death is what has galvanized people into sharing their insights, which were previously repressed and hidden from the public discourse. As such, it is a form of devotional service:

"...Those who thik that devotion to God and kindness to the jivas are mutually different from each other...their performance is only a semblance of devotion..academic AND spiritual education are the activities included in the devotional culture..." -BVT

Lila's tragic death is shining some new light on these areas. Thanks to all who are sharing their insights and knowledge.
May her passing not have been in vain. May it call attention to all the suffering souls:

From the Instructions of s.Gampopa
The Eleven Marks of a Holy Person:

"...Normally when we hear about or see people doing something that we feel is morally incorrect, we tend to generate the attitude, 'Those people are evildoers...' You have compassion for the beings who have been harmed, but not for those who did the harm. A genuine or holy person will have compassion for both, and especially for the person doing the evil..." p.108

If you read The History of Child Abuse, you will see where this abhorrence, fear, and disgust of having sex with the spouse came from. Because if your spouse is big time child molestor numero uno, that is not exactly going to make you feel hot for him or her, replete with loving discourses of honest self-disclosure to generate true intimacy.

It is symptomatic of a Level One society. Children are viewed as the adult's poison containers, to relieve the adult's stress. Therefore if someone's idea of a good time is to rape you, and your children, and your niece and nephew, and grandkids, is not exactly ideal and conducive to harmonious conjugal relations.

Basically you have a whole society over there of people with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, Prolonged Duress Disorder, and Borderline Personality Disorder, on top of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder previously observed.

But if people are given societal supports over there, or anywhere in the world where this is occuring, the dynamic will change.


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