tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post6871064792931789202..comments2024-03-26T13:06:41.178-04:00Comments on Jagat: Days Slipping ByJagadananda Dashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-19639737775957451832009-05-01T23:05:00.000-04:002009-05-01T23:05:00.000-04:00"I've seen many lines drawn in the sand and that m..."I've seen many lines drawn in the sand and that may be necessary at some time (a point that requires a lot of thought-do beginners need to be indoctrinated into fundamentalism?)"<br /><br />No. It's not neccessary. In fact, if in the beginning of your spiritual sojourn you have been indoctrinated into fundamentalism or any other negative impression, it may take years or even lifetimes to de-indoctrinate yourself. It is really a huge disservice to anybody to be indoctrinated into negativity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-81137187003007724972009-05-01T19:08:00.000-04:002009-05-01T19:08:00.000-04:00Geez, politics gets thick eh. My blog should be so...Geez, politics gets thick eh. My blog should be so political. But one thing gets lost quickly when passions turn to make wrongs. The ability to see into someone elses world. Easier to say it's all wrong and nothing worthwhile there. But from a more universalist viewpoint one could maybe see a rhyme and reason in it all. Even if you don't live there anymore. But the fight excites the passions and the first casualty of war is truth. <br /><br />We all have our schools which we will defend to our deaths, rationally or not. The truth I think is that Gaudiya Vaisnavism is evolving, expecially since coming to the west. It requires independent thinkers, who can give up to the minute thoughts on traditional ideas. Where will it all go. Far I hope. <br /><br />There is tension between the Sankirtan and Bhajan. I have great hope for the World Sankirtan mission. But in the Sankirtan of Mahaprabhu, so many Rasas were being relished. Even in so public a place as Ratha Yatra, Mahaprabhu was relishing great bhavas. So one is not diminished by the other. Everyone can relish according to their ability, like in Rasa theory, with no borders to stop the ever-expanding bliss of the unlimited ocean of Sri Krishna Sankirtan. <br /><br />A point that seems so abundantly obvious is if there had not been a beginners KC then where would we have started. Thanks to our many beginner Gurus. Many of the points they made are still relevant. Some toys however,can get left in Kindergarden. And one of those toys is the need to have an enemy. To make someone or some party wrong in order to feel right. I've seen many lines drawn in the sand and that may be necessary at some time (a point that requires a lot of thought-do beginners need to be indoctrinated into fundamentalism?)but it becomes a blaring inconsistancy in someone who is evolving to higher realms of consciousness. <br /><br />I am pretty impressed with what I have read on your blog so far Jagat. Sometimes I wonder if there's any life out there. It's great to see you treat of these things with such intelligence. Not to puff you up but it trumps the fundamentalist voices unilaterally. Jai HoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-64779842688688827242009-04-29T12:06:00.000-04:002009-04-29T12:06:00.000-04:00Dear Anonymous 2,
I believe what Jagat wanted to...Dear Anonymous 2, <br /><br />I believe what Jagat wanted to say by noticing that certain circles promote and emphasize sakhya rasa (see Jagat's post "Sunday", with 'Oh My Friend', 'Oh My Friend' book mentioned for example) is simply a statement that denotes today's GV's indifference to, or even acceptance and open talk about everything else but manjari bhava. <br /><br />Circles fully expert in sakhya rasa advocating it more and more will not be smacked or objected even remotely like those who want to say more about manjari-bhava, which is bĂȘte noire of GV since the conception of GM.<br /><br />Of course, it's just a stereotyped idea that has nothing to do either with sakhya or madhurya rasa or Caitanya, but with a blind, religious zeal. It lives its own, independent life ever since GM, and like a mad Polyphemus growling and throwing stones at innocent passers-by.<br /><br />So although Caitanya didn't come to promote neutrality or reverence, we can certainly say manjari bhava concept was his gift, never seen before. God certainly doesn't come just to cuddle and tap all good old things, but to give us something new too.<br /><br />Dear Anonymous 3, I couldn't but laugh at your comments. Your sacrilegious admittance to a fictional idea of what is a bonafide teaching is truly humorous. Thank you, you've made my day. I also believe your admittance to Sri Rupa comes from that same religious fear you bear, and your own interpretation and belief of what Sri Rupa makes relevant to future generations.<br /><br />Dear Jagat, sorry, I couldn't but notice a completely illogical point in your comparison of something non-existent (modern, reforming, rational GV) with Zen buddhism, which is long-estblished and existent. So honestly, we can't even imagine how modern GV would look like. However, you can step back and say Caitanya didn't come to give us reverence, neutrality, no taste for rasa, dharmic rules, superstition and varnasrama caste system, but that's all we're left with in GV today. <br /><br />We have an opposite problem here. We have something not worth modernizing and reforming at all because its heart is already dead. Perhaps is better then to re-formulate your statement and ask who's actually killed Buddha's heart, or in our case, Caitanya's? <br />Thank you.<br />- Anonymous 4Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-10939186476089661822009-04-29T08:27:00.000-04:002009-04-29T08:27:00.000-04:00(1) Unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam. These ar...(1) <I>Unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam</I>. These are the words of Srila Rupa Goswami: The specific gift of Mahaprabhu, which had not been given cirAt, for a very long time, was bhakti in the madhura (unnata-ujjvala-) rasa.<br /><br />(2) Rupa Goswami knew Mahaprabhu's heartfelt wish, as we say. This is what he came to give. The other rasas may have been given, but secondarily. <br /><br />(3) If some devotees believe that Prabhupada was in sakhya-rasa, which may very well be true, then who am I to argue if they wish to follow in that mood? But that is not getting the <B>full</B> gift that Mahaprabhu came with.<br /><br />This has nothing to do with <B>me</B>; this is simply an objective attempt to understand the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition as it is presented in the Chaitanya Charitamrita, etc. From what I understand, there are many disciples and godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada who do not accept that he was in sakhya-rasa.<br /><br />Of course, the problem is clear. And this is my position: That because Srila Prabhupada came to spread the first waves of Krishna consciousness, he never gave any disciple any specifics about these matters and left it for them to pursue on their own.<br /><br />Such pursuing entails finding siksha gurus who through their association, etc., are able to instill these various moods in the disciple. But most disciples of Srila Prabhupada have rejected any need for siksha gurus outside of Iskcon, some have gone to Gaudiya Math teachers, and only a few beyond that.<br /><br />I suppose books are helpful, but there is no substitute for the direct association of rasika devotees. None. Lava-matra sadhu-sanga.<br /><br />I am not in competition with Srila Prabhupada. You seem to think that I am. He is a guru of mine, so how can I be in competition with him? He is Krishna himself come to give me the Holy Name and Mahaprabhu's other gifts! Where is the question of competition? <br /><br />Everything I do is built on the gifts I got from him. Why should I destroy my foundation by denigrating his contribution to me and to the worldwide Krishna-consciousness movement?<br /><br />Does that mean that he did not leave any ucchishta for me to relish in my pursuance of the mystery of Mahaprabhu's love? Did Prabhupada "eat" everything and leave nothing for us? <br /><br />On the contrary, there is no shortage of things for us to do. You may be preaching to the shepherds of Outer Mongolia. My service is to understand this madhura-rasa and how to experience it. I follow Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati's last instruction: To take shelter of the mood of Rupa and Raghunath.<br /><br />If I have followed a slightly different way of doing so from the Gaudiya Math, it is due to inner inspiration and revelation, which I am bound to follow, as the Lord's grace impels me to do so. I cannot disobey the Lord in my Heart.<br /><br />If I am wrong, or if I am inadequate to the task, then may I be corrected.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-27454675718232793342009-04-29T00:26:00.000-04:002009-04-29T00:26:00.000-04:00If an empowered preacher like ACBS shows a deep at...If an empowered preacher like ACBS shows a deep attraction for sakhya rasa you question him as to what Mahaprabhu came to give? With all respect I think that he had more taste for Harinama and more realization and experience of bhava than you. <br /><br />Talk about madhurya is not the same as ACBS's often expressed feeling for sakhya rasa, especially when the talk (yours) is a departure from the Gaudiya sampradaya, as your Sahajiya Vaisnavsism is.<br /><br />I don't say this to criticize your decision to follow the sahajiya siddhanta, but it is perhaps confusing to some when you seem to want to make it the siddhanta of Sri Rupa. I mean you readily quote the Goswamis and then interpret their writing as being supportive of your conclusions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-13205210402531477842009-04-28T17:44:00.000-04:002009-04-28T17:44:00.000-04:00"So, where to go from here? Back in Canada. No cho..."So, where to go from here? Back in Canada. No choice really: BOOKS. Publish or perish."<br /><br />That's a very IGM approach.<br /><br />How about "bhajan or perish"?Love Lakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-56489202500953704412009-04-28T14:46:00.000-04:002009-04-28T14:46:00.000-04:00Shocking. Real. To the point.
You've helped me to...Shocking. Real. To the point.<br /><br />You've helped me to realize what it's all about. Thanks.Dasanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-56644278168842788242009-04-28T11:03:00.000-04:002009-04-28T11:03:00.000-04:00Please forgive my ignorance but I didn't understan...Please forgive my ignorance but I didn't understand what you meant in this section<br /><br /> "Now in certain circles we hear that sakhya-rasa is being promoted. So what was the point of madhura-rasa bhakti? And what the heck did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu come to give anyway? "<br /><br />Did you mean that sakhya rasa is being promoted because it isn't so overtly sexual? Also didn't Mahaprabhu come to give the 4 rasas of Vrindavana?<br /><br />ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-29438505809320550612009-04-27T13:25:00.000-04:002009-04-27T13:25:00.000-04:00Wow, this is one incredible talk. Timely, courageo...Wow, this is one incredible talk. Timely, courageous, jolting. Many thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com