tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post6569027016532277364..comments2024-03-26T13:06:41.178-04:00Comments on Jagat: The Changing of the GodsJagadananda Dashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-79901655965390261742009-12-05T15:04:21.079-05:002009-12-05T15:04:21.079-05:00"...indeed do portray her as "the ultima..."...indeed do portray her as "the ultimate tragic figure".<br />Still She is well known as 'Aahladini Shakti' - Supreme Pleasure Potency of the Lord!<br />"...pUrNAnanda mayo 'pi yad rasa lavA ' 'svAdena dhanyAyate <br />taddhAma sphuTa campakacchaviciraM rAdhA 'bhidhaM pAtu vaH"dr.jayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-35819403807067337772009-11-02T16:08:29.489-05:002009-11-02T16:08:29.489-05:00Pranams,
Thanks so much for this post. You have c...Pranams,<br /><br />Thanks so much for this post. You have clarified and elucidated, in a scholarly way, something I have been "Wh-h-hat?" about for years.<br /><br />It did seem to me that many of the narratives about Radha, especially how some of the stories end, indeed do portray her as "the ultimate tragic figure".<br /><br />Radhe RadheAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-50734952641764957912009-10-16T09:05:00.852-04:002009-10-16T09:05:00.852-04:00The purpose of the meaning then is to support the ...<i><br />The purpose of the meaning then is to support the symbol--in the way that Rupa Goswami would have been intending when he identified Radha as the embodiment of the hladini-shakti.</i><br />It's true in Rupa's case, but in our case today, you have to reinterpret both Radha and hladini-shakti, because they're both symbols now. As you move from one culture to another, from one time to another, reinterpretation must be done. Otherwise you drown yourself in literalism and detach yourself from the symbol -- a tendency which eventually ends up in fundamentalism.Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-22852899746696295882009-10-15T15:45:39.211-04:002009-10-15T15:45:39.211-04:00No doubt Gerow has important things to say. Withou...No doubt Gerow has important things to say. Without knowing any of them, I want to say this: When we use terms like "rasa-raja" "maha-bhava" "hladini-shakti" "svayam bhagavan", those are all, by their very nature, symbolic statements, or rather interpretative statements of symbols. <br /><br />Some devotees refuse to isolate the symbolic meaning from the symbol. That is alright, because God communicates to us through these symbolic forms. But to enter the symbol more completely, we must understand how our acharyas interpreted them.<br /><br />In the 21st century, the capacity to interpret symbols has been greatly augmented, in particular by the study of psychology, structural anthropology, etc. <br /><br />The main fear is that by reductionism we will lose the essence of devotion and faith. We really need to cast this fear aside. We do not diminish Radha and Krishna by interpretation, because the symbols are axiomatically pure and whole. <br /><br />The other fear is that something will be lost, mainly culturally. Symbolic meanings tend to transcend specifics--linguistic, cultural, etc. The meaning is seen as the esoteric essence and the symbol itself as a mere pointer to that meaning. <br /><br />Tillich argued against that kind of thinking, and I agree with him. Speaking as a man of faith, I believe that God enters the symbols and invests them with divine power. Like Harinam. <br /><br />The purpose of the meaning then is to support the symbol--in the way that Rupa Goswami would have been intending when he identified Radha as the embodiment of the hladini-shakti.<br /><br />This is why contemplation on the meaning of the Holy Name is a necessary aspect of chanting. Use the repetition of the Holy Name as a shovel to dig deeply into its deepest, deepest sense.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-53989273284478700162009-10-15T09:19:09.688-04:002009-10-15T09:19:09.688-04:00Gerow is worth reading if one is interested in sah...Gerow is worth reading if one is interested in sahitya sastra.KRISHNA DASAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359762371537677705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-9171927084423502282009-10-14T06:57:08.594-04:002009-10-14T06:57:08.594-04:00Sorry, I haven't read anything about Gerow. Th...Sorry, I haven't read anything about Gerow. That's my problem... neither a scholar nor a devotee.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-29033219286091113982009-10-14T00:33:43.299-04:002009-10-14T00:33:43.299-04:00I am wondering whether you know Edwin Gerow's ...I am wondering whether you know Edwin Gerow's article Language and Symbol in Indian Semiotics published in: Philosophy East and West, Vol. 34, No. 3. (Jul., 1984), pp. 245-260. It is a very interesting comparative study of the concept of symbol in Indian theories of language and in Peirce. He gives some argument why the concept of symbol is so undeveloped in Indian semiotics.KRISHNA DASAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359762371537677705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-34609417952397540752009-10-13T17:26:30.733-04:002009-10-13T17:26:30.733-04:00"The concept of God as an individual or colle..."The concept of God as an individual or collective projection is the operative idea of all 19th century atheism..."<br /><br />It is also the operative idea of raganuga bhakti.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-24456503615005685302009-10-13T17:12:21.867-04:002009-10-13T17:12:21.867-04:00So much of the research and information you have s...So much of the research and information you have shared recently in the past dozen or so posts is so full of details and significance on so many different levels of human endeavor. <br /><br />You appear to be channeling Goddess Sarasvati and Ananta deva in providing very valuable contributions to advance human understanding.<br /><br />Radhe RadheAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-18764502453114136532009-10-13T16:24:57.877-04:002009-10-13T16:24:57.877-04:00What motivated me to write on this particular poin...What motivated me to write on this particular point was that the transparent via media idea was something that was drummed into us in Iskcon, and even now it is a rather prominent idea in the whole discussion of guru-tattva in GV circles. <br /><br />The idea is that "the Supreme Absolute Truth" is unchanging and that therefore preaching is only a question of tactics. One is a "letter deliverer" putting "old wine in new bottles" and so on. <br /><br />The real task of the guru is the same as that of the poet: to create a world, both a world of the imagination and a transformed world (i.e., community) in the here and now. <br /><br />I know this sounds very existentialist, but few people really seem to know how to stop being mere repeaters of words. <br /><br />This prohibition on creativity held me personally back for many years. At least I had the good fortune to explore Gaudiya Vaishnavism in its many forms in its original environment, got good association, etc., so that I had a better historical awareness and had a wider base of experience than most devotees. This has served me well, on the whole. <br /><br />Jai Radhe!<br /><br />P.S. Thanks for noticing. When I write on more meaty matters I generally get few responses. It is very helpful to get feedback from a scholar like yourself.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-88800925426242664062009-10-13T16:07:25.262-04:002009-10-13T16:07:25.262-04:00Actually I quoted that very same verse in the othe...Actually I quoted that very same verse in the other post refered to (Rasa-raja, etc.). And I was quite aware of both the points you made. <br /><br />Kaviraj argues the point better than I could, and makes the caveats that you refer to, but I think his general point is acceptable. If there is a cutoff point, however, I would say that the medieval bhakti movements do represent something of a change in direction.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-41430607606879636522009-10-13T13:47:57.317-04:002009-10-13T13:47:57.317-04:00I would like to comment on some minor points in yo...I would like to comment on some minor points in your article:<br /><br />1. You wrote:<br /><br /><i>"In his work, an artist creates a world." Though Kaviraj finds this to be a particularly "modern" attempt on Bankim's part, in some ways, it was foreshadowed, at least tactically, by Rupa Goswami. </i><br /><br />This is not a modern idea at all. Actually it is very Indian. Already Anandavardhana says in his Dhvanyaloka (3.41 vRtti):<br /><br /><i>apAre kAvyasaMsAre kavir ekaH prajApatiH<br />yathAsmai rocate vizvaM tathedaM parivartate</i><br /><br />I would also like to remind you of the opening verse of Mammata's Kavya Prakash:<br /><br /><i>niyati-kRta-niyama-rahitAM hlAdaikamayImananyaparatantrAm<br />navarasarucitAM nirmitimAdadhatI bhAratI kaver jayati</i><br /><br />Apart from that the concept of pratibha is closely related to this problem. Abhinavagupta, for example, defines pratibha as <i>apUrva-vastu-nirmANa-kSamA. </i><br /><br />2. You wrote:<br /><br /><i>"There are several points that he makes, one of which is related to authorship. Generally speaking, the recognition of individual authorship is considered an indispensible given in understanding any text in the West, whereas in India, objective truth was tied in with the effacement of ego of the author."</i><br /><br />This is not true. Anonymous authorship of texts or "effacement of ego of the author" or whatever we call it was common in Middle Ages in Europe. It flourished during the Renaissance as well. It actually exists in cultures all over the world, almost in all times.KRISHNA DASAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03359762371537677705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-77405727849224190212009-10-13T10:27:43.244-04:002009-10-13T10:27:43.244-04:00That is really an infinitesimal portion. I will ha...That is really an infinitesimal portion. I will have to do another post on this when I get the time.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.com