tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post4979670801939538781..comments2024-03-26T13:06:41.178-04:00Comments on Jagat: Nikunja Rahasya Stava (Part II)Jagadananda Dashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-32141728619733956762012-02-12T22:01:39.001-05:002012-02-12T22:01:39.001-05:00I simply want to thank you for this and the previo...I simply want to thank you for this and the previous post.Vic DiCara / Vraja Kishor dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421469791223732799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-40813935653657515142008-05-11T15:55:00.000-04:002008-05-11T15:55:00.000-04:00Namaste, beloved Jagadananda dasaji :-)How wonderf...Namaste, beloved Jagadananda dasaji :-)<BR/><BR/>How wonderful this Nikunja Rahasya Stava is!<BR/><BR/>Since last time I have been trying to penetrate into your perspective on Vaishnavism. In order to try to understand your Sahajiya-vaishnavism I have tried to practice Namajapa (Hare Krishna Hare Rama)and reading your articles of "Raganuga Bhakti and Sahaja Sadhana", "Ahangrahopasana and Aropa" and, ofcourse, "Answer to Prem Ananda":-)<BR/><BR/>I must admit that in this short time and with no contact with Krishna devotees my experience of the vaishnava path has been only in my own mind. But I have made some reflections on the subject.<BR/><BR/>SATCHIDANANDA<BR/><BR/>It is interesting to see how you put SATCHIDANANDA in relation to Brahman, Paramatman and Bhagavan. And in that order. I also understand the logic in this setup.<BR/><BR/>In trika-shaivism (Kashmiri Shaivism) it is said that Shiva is the only being and true existence (Sat) and that Chit and Ananda is his conscious and blissfull qualities( Shiva is Chidananda).<BR/><BR/>In trika-shaivism it is also said that Shiva is the Supreme Lord and the only Person in the whole of creation. The only reason that this is not clear is because of Mayas veiling and the seemingly limitation of time, space, creativity, knowledge, attachment, and individuality. Why does Shiva let this veiling of his true identity take place? Is Shiva weaker than Maya? Trika-shaivism answers that the veiling is happening because Shiva wants it to. Shiva enjoyes this game of veiling and reveiling himself. It is His Lila.<BR/><BR/>In this respect, when the shaiva sits and says "Shivo'ham" he says that he is like Shiva in quality but not in quantity. "I am Shiva existing in the form of this limited body, but Shiva is also all around me, in the minerals, plants, animals, planets, stars and galaxies. Shiva is the transcendentals Self, immanent in all indivuals Selves". The realization of the shaiva yogi is that his identity shifts from Jiva to Shiva, feeling himself to be both transcendent in consciousness and immanent in individuality.<BR/><BR/>With this in view, I find something that I see as corresponding between shajaiya-vaishnavism and trika-shaivism, though they are different in expression.<BR/><BR/>Both schools of thought accept the samkhya theory of tattvas, though their numbers of categories is different (traditional samkhya has 24 or 25 tattvas, depending on wether you include Purusha as a tattva or not, while trika-shaivism talks about 36 tattvas. Here the 11 last tattvas is concerned with Shivas various states of being, from maya and the five limitations, to the pure state of Shiva as the Supreme Being).<BR/><BR/>These differences I am in no way to judge. I may sympathisize with one or the other, but I am in no position to judge since my experience of these higher tattvas is nil.<BR/><BR/>DAS OR NATH?<BR/><BR/>In orthodox Gaudiya-Vaishnavism I have heard it said that we Jivas exist to be the servants of Krishna. Our only purpose of being is to serve and please the Lord. This seems strange to me. Is the Lord really a dictator? Can this be true. Seen from this statement and perspective it seems like the Lord has only made us to be his slaves. Can this really be so? Then why have I never experienced Krishna in this perspective? From all that I have read, Krishna seems like true friend, lover and guru. I the Bhagavad Gita I read about a compassionate and concerned friend. He does not act like a dictator to Arjuna. He guides him, helps him and loves him as a true friend.<BR/><BR/>In vrindavan he shows himself as a true lover in the sensual play between him and Radha. Here he displayes the lovers sweet devotion to his beloved.<BR/><BR/>How can this Krishna demant from his firend, or his beloved that they should become his servants? And as a father of the whole universe, can it be that he wants his children to be his servants?<BR/><BR/>I am a father myself and I truly wish that my daughter will be herself, find her own way of expression in life. I want her to be a Master in her own respect, not a servant. How can Krishna want that from us?<BR/><BR/>I do not think is fault lays with Krishna, but with teacher interpretating Krishna. How often have not seen that people, consciously or unconsciously, have twisted the truth to fit into their own perception of how things should be.<BR/><BR/>ON SEX<BR/><BR/>Why does orthodox vaishnavas condemn sex? Can it be that the celebate teachers has colored their interpretations of Krishna and Radha in light of their own life situation? Where does Krishna condemn sex?<BR/><BR/>I will share a insight from my own master. (I know that he is looked upon as "the anti-krishna" in ISKCON circles, but I hope that this will not result in the discarding of my sincere inquiry into understanding Krishna from the vaishnava point of view).<BR/><BR/>Acharya Rajneesh (aka Osho) says that sex-energy is the Elan Vital present in the whole creation. It is a natural phenomenon and the incomplete individuals longing for union and completeness.Physical sex is but the crude manifestation of this longing. But in order to evolve past this crude manifestation of longing we have to understand it. Therefor it is important that we experience sex in its physical aspect when it comes naturally. Acharya Rajneesh has explained that if sex is accepted in a true manner, it will naturally evolve from its physical state into love and then to compassion. <BR/><BR/>The physical state of sex naturally manifest in the age between 14 and 21. Here we seek physical union. We are also in the best physical shape to bare children.<BR/><BR/>The emotional state of sex, or romance, happens naturally after the physical state of sex (maybe between the age of 21 and 28). If the physical state has been lived through and "tired out" it is natural that we look for something more. The physical union is not enough. We want to know the other person more intimately than on the physical level. We want to connect emotionally. So here we look for love, not sex.<BR/><BR/>After sometime in the emotional state of love (maybe between the age of 28 and 35) it will transform into compassion. We discover that love is something that comes from within. Through living in the emotional state, triggered from the outside by our beloved, we come to realize that love is something that comes from the core of our being and shines outward. This is the mental state of love, not in an intelectual meaning, but in the sense that love shines on every object arising in our mental field (all outwardly objects also is reflected in the mental field), and this transforms love into compassion. And with compassion the physical aspect of sex also looses more of its grip.<BR/><BR/>At last comes the spiritual state of love. This is when one discovers that ONE IS LOVE. One unites with ones own being. Here the physical aspect of sex is totally lost and one is whole in oneself.<BR/><BR/>The last stage of union, or yoga, may differ in vaishnavism and shaivism. As I understand it, one leaves individual identification (the state of Jiva) and unites with Krishna in the final state as one next to Him. In shaivism one unites with Shiva as one (the Jiva experiences absorption in Shiva).<BR/><BR/>KRISHNA AS LOVER AND FRIEND<BR/><BR/>I feel that Krishna shows us the way out of sex and into love through His sensual play with Radha. He displays the feverish love between a man and a woman deeply in love, connecting on a highly emotional level. <BR/><BR/>Later, in Bhagavad Gita, he comes as our friend, filled with compassion for our confused state of mind. He expects nothing but shows us everything. He act like a friend but enlighten us as a Guru. And what I hear Him tell us is that we should realize our own true nature, fullfill our svadharma and be happy as we are. He does not tell Arjuna not to be a warrior, but to be a complete warrior. Neither does he tell Radha to be a celebate or the gopis to be faithful but to be completely and madly in love.<BR/><BR/>I love the expression of Krishna and I see Him as the most complete expression in human form.<BR/><BR/>Acharya Rajneesh has said that Krishna is the most colorful expression that have ever happened. Mahavira (the Jain saint of the religion Rajneesh was raised in), Buddha and Christ all shows us one way to Mokasha. Krishna is like a prism that transform the divine, invisible light into a rainbow of expressions. He is Mokasha.<BR/><BR/>JAI SRI KRISHNA!<BR/><BR/>Thanks ones again, Jagananda Dasaji for your wonderful blog. I hope this rambeling makes sense to you. As you shurely have noticed english is not my mother tounge and even though I always start out with a plan I end up somewhere completely else :-)<BR/><BR/>Love from Prem AnandaSvacchandanathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09130710205315614539noreply@blogger.com