tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post117094656172667563..comments2024-03-26T13:06:41.178-04:00Comments on Jagat: The Gita and Varna-sankara (From RISA)Jagadananda Dashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-2455153079514222672017-05-08T06:42:06.011-04:002017-05-08T06:42:06.011-04:00Arjuna enquires;
"How, O Mādhava, can we be ...Arjuna enquires;<br /><br />"How, O Mādhava, can we be happy by killing our own kinsmen. Even if these, with judgements perverted by avarice, do not see the evil that ariseth from the extermination of a race, and the sin of internecine quarrels, why should not we, O Janārddana, who see the evils of the extermination of a race, learn to abstain from that sin. A race being destroyed, the eternal customs of that race are lost; and upon those customs being lost, sin overpowers the whole race. From the predominance of sin, O Krishna, the women of that race, become corrupt. And the women becoming corrupt, an intermingling of castes happeneth, O descendant of Vrishni. This intermingling of castes leadeth to hell both the destroyer of the race and the race itself." <br /><br />Mahābhārata. Book VI ‘Bhishma Parva,’ Section 25<br /><br />See:<br /><br />http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06025.htm<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-78941290459479918542016-07-17T05:56:41.687-04:002016-07-17T05:56:41.687-04:00The statement was of Arjuna and not Krishna. Origi...The statement was of Arjuna and not Krishna. Originally it appears varnas were decided on the basis of qulity and career. Thereafter perhaps Brahmins and Kshatriyas took it for granted that a Brahmin's son was Brahmin and a Kshatriya's son was Kshatriya. Of course, there were terms like Brahmabandhu and Kshatrabandhu which meant born in Brahmin family or Kshatriya family but possess not the qualities. <br />However by the time of Krishna/Arjuna the system had deteriorated. To the question raised by Arjuna in the first chapter of the Geeta, Krishna answers in ch.4,verse.13 that the varna classification made by Krishna was strictly on the basis of quality and career. <br />In the last chapter again, i.e. in ch.18, verse.42 it is clearly mentioned what the qualities are which make a Brahmin, vs.43 that of Kshatriya and vs.44 that of Vaisya and Sudra. <br />These facts are very clearly presented in a recently published book, viz., "An Easy Guide to the Bhagawad Geeta or Formulae for Happiness", published by Kurushetra publications, Kaloor, Kochin, Kerala. Padmanabhannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-79270909173233240902016-07-16T10:52:08.847-04:002016-07-16T10:52:08.847-04:00Was Krishna hinting about example of Kunti and Kar...Was Krishna hinting about example of Kunti and Karna or was Arjuna referring to it when Varna-Sankara is discussed?Suresh Nambiarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01860816564512276554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-36070379760212369822007-10-12T01:17:00.000-04:002007-10-12T01:17:00.000-04:00Varna sankara means mixing varnas. Varna means lo...Varna sankara means mixing varnas. Varna means loosely caste in one sense and "color" in another.<BR/><BR/>Basically it means "mixed marriage", inter-caste marriage or inter-racial marriage, as politically incorrect that may seem to us today.<BR/><BR/>Remember this was in a culture where widow remarriage was deemed practically forbidden and such attitudes are still present in the same region in 2007.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-9617454551619139832007-07-05T18:19:00.000-04:002007-07-05T18:19:00.000-04:00nice post. you may want to read what saints like g...nice post. you may want to read what saints like gandhi have said about the gita <A HREF="http://www.gitananda.org/about-gita/index.php" REL="nofollow">http://www.gitananda.org/about-gita/index.php</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-1171026490720895192007-02-09T08:08:00.000-05:002007-02-09T08:08:00.000-05:00I agree with you. The real reason I posted this ma...I agree with you. The real reason I posted this material was because I found Konrad Elst's refutation of the modernist interpretation of dharma to be both correct and unsatisfying. In my humble opinion, the Gita presents both the social argument of dharmic responsability and that of individual freedom. The Gita's adaptability to modern circumstances comes precisely of the fact that you can interpret dharma in an individualistic fashion, and not as a generic category that everyone was supposed to adhere to.<BR/><BR/>As to the "sva-dharme nidhanaM zreyaH" verse, I think that ahistorical interpretations where "sva-dharma" is truly one's own calling, can be found in potential if not in fact.<BR/><BR/>I personally do not believe that the Gita could ever have attained popularity if it did not have the individualistic flavor. After all, it is the "sarva-dharmAn parityajya" verse that is most repeated and most strongly held to, not only in our tradition, but in most Hindu traditions.<BR/><BR/>Appeals to social stability (like the varna-sankara fear) are always secondary. The individual feels a vested interest in society only so long as his personal development (material or spiritual) is benefited thereby.Jagadananda Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887720845815026518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31351038.post-1170994128819304152007-02-08T23:08:00.000-05:002007-02-08T23:08:00.000-05:00The meaning of varna sankara in the first chapter ...The meaning of varna sankara in the first chapter of the Gita is being used in such a way as to give the idea that the children of loose women will be "varna sankara". Therefore it is not the idea of caste mixing which is being talked about, it is the idea of children being born outside of wedlock which causes the breakdown of the traditional vedic family tradition e.g. single women with kids are not seen as potential wives, or if they are married off the children born during the marriage could become favored and the child born out of wedlock mistreated. All of this can lead to chaos and the disintegration of the social interaction of the community. An example dealing with the concept of varna would be that the child born out of wedlock may have the natural propensity of his stepfather but due to dislike of the child the father neglects to teach him or even forces the child into doing the wrong type of work e.g the stepfather is a brahmana, the boy is a natural brahmana, but the stepfather forces the child to work as a sudra, or the boy may be a natural ksatriya and is forced to be a sudra.<BR/><BR/>This is clearly the overall message of that part of the gita. It has nothing to do with maintaining caste or against the idea of caste mixing, it's about loose women and their children and the potential chaos that can be caused to an ordered traditional vedic community.Vrajahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06535159097241083544noreply@blogger.com